RichardS
N/A
If you have an electric windlass, I'd go for the No.5 at that price. You could anchor out in a hurricane with that!
Richard
Anchors. I hate to do this but...
- Thread starter Twister_Ken
- Start date
- Status
If you have an electric windlass, I'd go for the No.5 at that price. You could anchor out in a hurricane with that!
Richard
melandnick
New member
If you have an electric windlass, I'd go for the No.5 at that price. You could anchor out in a hurricane with that!
Richard
True but my chain (8mm) or fittings will give out long before that and I don't trust my windlass so like to be able to handle the anchor by hand.
Nick
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Congo,
Too late for me (I'm Spaded) but a very generous offer.
Too late for me (I'm Spaded) but a very generous offer.
Sybaris
Member
Wow, so it is ok for manufacturers to sell their goods on YBW now. Amazing.
Rigger Mortice
N/A
It's not strictly according to the rules, but it's a generous offer made in a generous spirit.
What has Rocna been doing for more than 5 years and about 650 postings?
What has Rocna been doing for more than 5 years and about 650 postings?
snowleopard
Active member
Which test figure is most important?
In the real world it matters not how much tension an anchor can take under perfect conditions so, instead of making a big thing about the maximum load we should be looking at the lowest of a series of test results.
Who cares that on one occasion an anchor held at 5000 lb pull if on another occasion it dragged with a 500 lb pull. I'd rather have an anchor that would always withstand at least 1000 lb than one that would sometimes hold much more than that.
In the real world it matters not how much tension an anchor can take under perfect conditions so, instead of making a big thing about the maximum load we should be looking at the lowest of a series of test results.
Who cares that on one occasion an anchor held at 5000 lb pull if on another occasion it dragged with a 500 lb pull. I'd rather have an anchor that would always withstand at least 1000 lb than one that would sometimes hold much more than that.
Ubergeekian
Active member
Rocna have made just one post. The others were made by someone who has no affiliation with Rocna, isn't authorised to speak for Rocna and has, it seems, been asked to shut up by Rocna ...
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Yeah, sure.
CONGO
Member
Sorry if I have broken the rules, it certainly wasn’t intentional; I apologize to the mediator as I had no intentions of selling on your forum, it was a spontaneous reaction in appreciation that was all.
To all that have contacted me I will be in touch shortly.
Thanks to all for your input and questions, I am no longer angry, certainly not bitter; thanks to you all as I am pleased with the outcome, silence.
Regards.
Rex.
Anchor Right Australia.
To all that have contacted me I will be in touch shortly.
Thanks to all for your input and questions, I am no longer angry, certainly not bitter; thanks to you all as I am pleased with the outcome, silence.
Regards.
Rex.
Anchor Right Australia.
Djbangi
New member
Century 22 Intergalactic Realestate
I appreciate that sales literature is frowned upon but have been adrift, with a solar storm due in 2 hours (actually real - but only 20-30 knots)
Honest assessment - high risk investment.
Condominium for sale near Martian N Pole (good damp mud nearby, used 4X4 included in sale, with 2 speed winch) - no internet connections but imagineative vieo cam, near neighbour of internationally famous anchor designer. Long way to to anywhere related to reality Owner returned toward earth, sadly still star struck (so maybe bargain basement pricing - but equally lacking any indication of integrity). Thinks 'average' and 'maximum' the same -possibly provide dictionary prior to any further discussion. Suspect fire sale - other assets may be next.
Dislikes any unpleasant comment made about his property - but does not mind it made against others. Suspicion that previous public comments were approved but now trying to wash hands, refer to Lady MacBeth, centuries earlier (she had no success either). Lacks loyalty (as well as integrity - watch ones own wallet) Obviously double standards. Called bullying in Martian schoolyards and stupidity, and unacceptable, in adult circles.
Thinks platitudes will suffice - check parity of Martian Dollar when making offer - history suggests ideas of discounts and lower cost basis sometime do not transfer. Martian building quality might be good - but insufficient sales and history to compare - would be nice if specifications of raw material defined. Previous description of product highly suspect, does not relate to any other surveys - owner denies tampering, but can provide no comparable data from any other independent survey. Investment may all fall down. Suspcion that Daleks may have sucked out brain and replaced with interspacial dust - not other reason for mental aberrations.
Summary high risk investment, despite near neighbour - advise hold and if deposit already paid cut losses and walk (or sail)
I appreciate that sales literature is frowned upon but have been adrift, with a solar storm due in 2 hours (actually real - but only 20-30 knots)
Honest assessment - high risk investment.
Condominium for sale near Martian N Pole (good damp mud nearby, used 4X4 included in sale, with 2 speed winch) - no internet connections but imagineative vieo cam, near neighbour of internationally famous anchor designer. Long way to to anywhere related to reality Owner returned toward earth, sadly still star struck (so maybe bargain basement pricing - but equally lacking any indication of integrity). Thinks 'average' and 'maximum' the same -possibly provide dictionary prior to any further discussion. Suspect fire sale - other assets may be next.
Dislikes any unpleasant comment made about his property - but does not mind it made against others. Suspicion that previous public comments were approved but now trying to wash hands, refer to Lady MacBeth, centuries earlier (she had no success either). Lacks loyalty (as well as integrity - watch ones own wallet) Obviously double standards. Called bullying in Martian schoolyards and stupidity, and unacceptable, in adult circles.
Thinks platitudes will suffice - check parity of Martian Dollar when making offer - history suggests ideas of discounts and lower cost basis sometime do not transfer. Martian building quality might be good - but insufficient sales and history to compare - would be nice if specifications of raw material defined. Previous description of product highly suspect, does not relate to any other surveys - owner denies tampering, but can provide no comparable data from any other independent survey. Investment may all fall down. Suspcion that Daleks may have sucked out brain and replaced with interspacial dust - not other reason for mental aberrations.
Summary high risk investment, despite near neighbour - advise hold and if deposit already paid cut losses and walk (or sail)
vyv_cox
Well-known member
It's a very valid point. Looking at the YM version of the WM tests, (I'm sure I am not the only one who is thoroughly confused as to whether they are the true ones or not) one point that can be drawn is that NO anchor held pefectly every time it was tested. Manson, Rocna. Spade and Fortress ALL dragged to some extent on at least one attempt. It's an imperfect world and we cannot expect perfection in a field so unpredictable as anchoring to the seabed.
Brian@Fortress
New member
Some further thoughts on this Rocna debacle:
- Applause to those who wrote strongly worded posts to the Rocna CEO after his hopelessly long overdue response, as well as to Djbangi for providing some much needed comic relief to the matter. The humor, however is short-lived by the fact that the recently deceased Alain Poiraud, a respectable man & anchor designer, now has his former web site (ancoralatina.com) being pointed to Peter Smith's despicable web page where Alain's own anchors are being desecrated.
That is sickening and infuriating beyond belief, and I doubt if the Rocna CEO Steve Bambury can do a damn thing about it, even if he wanted to, because more than likely, he has no access to the domain name "petersmith.net.nz"
- I met Steve a few years ago at a USA marine trade show. He seemed like an affable guy, and we discussed Craig Smith and the harm he was doing in the forums to Rocna and others. After our conversation, I was left with the impression that Steve was going to do something about it. Stupid and gullible me.....I failed to realize then that Craig Smith's forum rantings were an integral part of their marketing program.
For those without a shred of integrity, bad publicity is better than no publicity......and now here we are, years & hundreds of posts later....and it took a complete & public humiliation of Craig Smith through comments coming in from a wide variety of sources (manufacturers, Rocna owners, a former employee, a friend of Peter Smith's, etc.) before Steve made the effort to disassociate Craig Smith from Rocna.
I guess that Steve came to the conclusion after this outcry that Craig Smith's value to their marketing program had finally reached a point where the negatives out-weighed any positives, and so it was time to make Craig walk the plank.
- Grant King, their former production manager, stated earlier in a post that he had "absolutely no respect for them and the way they operate", and to the gentlemen who wrote those strongly worded posts to Steve about the changes that Rocna should immediately make.......it is likely to be a very, very long wait.
- Applause to those who wrote strongly worded posts to the Rocna CEO after his hopelessly long overdue response, as well as to Djbangi for providing some much needed comic relief to the matter. The humor, however is short-lived by the fact that the recently deceased Alain Poiraud, a respectable man & anchor designer, now has his former web site (ancoralatina.com) being pointed to Peter Smith's despicable web page where Alain's own anchors are being desecrated.
That is sickening and infuriating beyond belief, and I doubt if the Rocna CEO Steve Bambury can do a damn thing about it, even if he wanted to, because more than likely, he has no access to the domain name "petersmith.net.nz"
- I met Steve a few years ago at a USA marine trade show. He seemed like an affable guy, and we discussed Craig Smith and the harm he was doing in the forums to Rocna and others. After our conversation, I was left with the impression that Steve was going to do something about it. Stupid and gullible me.....I failed to realize then that Craig Smith's forum rantings were an integral part of their marketing program.
For those without a shred of integrity, bad publicity is better than no publicity......and now here we are, years & hundreds of posts later....and it took a complete & public humiliation of Craig Smith through comments coming in from a wide variety of sources (manufacturers, Rocna owners, a former employee, a friend of Peter Smith's, etc.) before Steve made the effort to disassociate Craig Smith from Rocna.
I guess that Steve came to the conclusion after this outcry that Craig Smith's value to their marketing program had finally reached a point where the negatives out-weighed any positives, and so it was time to make Craig walk the plank.
- Grant King, their former production manager, stated earlier in a post that he had "absolutely no respect for them and the way they operate", and to the gentlemen who wrote those strongly worded posts to Steve about the changes that Rocna should immediately make.......it is likely to be a very, very long wait.
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Scotty_Tradewind
Active member
Yaaawn!! Oh dear, I thought I'd give myself a rest from this thread as the sales staff all seem as bad as one another. Upon return you'r still at it!
Wether you'r right or wrong about all the mud slinging that's gone on why don't you call it a day and just make good anchors that all have their misgivings in one area or another?
www.sailingscotty.com
Wether you'r right or wrong about all the mud slinging that's gone on why don't you call it a day and just make good anchors that all have their misgivings in one area or another?
www.sailingscotty.com
Rigger Mortice
N/A
Brian,
You're right.
Rocna have promised to make one small step in the right direction........but there is a long, long way for them to go before they can even start to regain any credibility.
Their silence throughout all this saga has been the cause of their problems; they now need to be seen to be making real change.
Time will tell.
You're right.
Rocna have promised to make one small step in the right direction........but there is a long, long way for them to go before they can even start to regain any credibility.
Their silence throughout all this saga has been the cause of their problems; they now need to be seen to be making real change.
Time will tell.
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RichardS
N/A
Occasionally some poor demented soul will raise their head above the parapet and meekly proffer the opinion that they have no objection to Craig Smith's postings on the Scuttlebutt forum.
OK, I can see the men in white coats are coming so I've ducked down again now!
Richard (the not-so-lionheart)
OK, I can see the men in white coats are coming so I've ducked down again now!
Richard (the not-so-lionheart)
Djbangi
New member
The Buck stops here - but right should permeate society.
Rigger,
I am sure you are correct (about needing some change from the top) - but there are other people, organisations, who have also been happy to hang on the back of Rocna's coat tails. They all thought they could make a buck, or a quid, because they thought the 'public face' of Rocna would make them rich. There have also been people - in this and other forums - who have said this sort of activity is all right, in facts its part of modern entertainment. So spare a thought for the anchor manufacturers, magazines etc who have been the brunt of the Rocna assualt and have never had a distributor stand up and say 'we do not like this', the anchor makers and magazines who have been disparaged - to find contributors to forums (some of whom represented companies whom one thought had integrity) say 'we like this, we think its fun'. There are a whole raft of people who thought the Rocna style was quite acceptable (even though there was not a single other example that I can think of in any other industry) - this must have filtered through, till even the CEO thought he might get away with it - and they did get away with it for too long.
To me it is quite acceptable for people to argue about the rights and wrongs of multihulls vs monohulls, or carrying guns or not - we are all entitled to our own opinions. But slander, insult, using a dead man's investment to bolster one's own business, massage data, flood the forums with your own name (2 times per line) - and still enjoy the support of importers, some forums and mavericks with a warped sense of humour?
At the end of the day it took a hard core of people and some pretty dispicable acts (on behalf of Rocna) to bring a reaction. Its a sad reflection on something - interestingly other forums had different standards (though I am not aware of a single distributor standing up and being counted).
Rigger, Brian, Delfin - you stood up (and look back - at times you were isolated, condemned as being unfair; called cruel, vindictive, narrow minded), you were counted and so were many others. I'd be happy to sail with you. I would be happy to buy your product. I'm not sure about some of the others, but they have all gone quiet now that the tide has at last turned.
One good thing - some (wise) arse somewhere will pick this up and use it as some sophisticated mangement tool that he will sel to companies as a way not to run a business. They will make a fortune. Previously they used 'Fawlty Towers', next 'The Rocna debacle' - how to destroy a product in one easy lesson in 2 years.
Steve - there is a future for you yet, the international management guru lecture circuit.
Rigger,
I am sure you are correct (about needing some change from the top) - but there are other people, organisations, who have also been happy to hang on the back of Rocna's coat tails. They all thought they could make a buck, or a quid, because they thought the 'public face' of Rocna would make them rich. There have also been people - in this and other forums - who have said this sort of activity is all right, in facts its part of modern entertainment. So spare a thought for the anchor manufacturers, magazines etc who have been the brunt of the Rocna assualt and have never had a distributor stand up and say 'we do not like this', the anchor makers and magazines who have been disparaged - to find contributors to forums (some of whom represented companies whom one thought had integrity) say 'we like this, we think its fun'. There are a whole raft of people who thought the Rocna style was quite acceptable (even though there was not a single other example that I can think of in any other industry) - this must have filtered through, till even the CEO thought he might get away with it - and they did get away with it for too long.
To me it is quite acceptable for people to argue about the rights and wrongs of multihulls vs monohulls, or carrying guns or not - we are all entitled to our own opinions. But slander, insult, using a dead man's investment to bolster one's own business, massage data, flood the forums with your own name (2 times per line) - and still enjoy the support of importers, some forums and mavericks with a warped sense of humour?
At the end of the day it took a hard core of people and some pretty dispicable acts (on behalf of Rocna) to bring a reaction. Its a sad reflection on something - interestingly other forums had different standards (though I am not aware of a single distributor standing up and being counted).
Rigger, Brian, Delfin - you stood up (and look back - at times you were isolated, condemned as being unfair; called cruel, vindictive, narrow minded), you were counted and so were many others. I'd be happy to sail with you. I would be happy to buy your product. I'm not sure about some of the others, but they have all gone quiet now that the tide has at last turned.
One good thing - some (wise) arse somewhere will pick this up and use it as some sophisticated mangement tool that he will sel to companies as a way not to run a business. They will make a fortune. Previously they used 'Fawlty Towers', next 'The Rocna debacle' - how to destroy a product in one easy lesson in 2 years.
Steve - there is a future for you yet, the international management guru lecture circuit.
Ubergeekian
Active member
That opinion might not be shared by those he attacks (or attacked), of course.
RichardS
N/A
Depends on what you mean by "attacked".
If you mean "disagreed with" then we've all been there - it seems to go with the forum territory.
If you mean "been rude or offensive to" then I can't recall Craig Smith ever doing that to anyone.
Richard
Djbangi
New member
Life on Mars
Richard,
I recall Craig saying, something like, of an article in an Italian yachting magazine, that did not show Rocna in a good light - it was just 'noise'. These guys spent hours out on the water, they did not do a bad job. They actually produced a sensible bit of prose - and Craig, the master of the anchor test on dry land, with the 2 speed winch, says its 'noise'. This is from a guy whose knowledge of anchoring has been learnt on the internet. That's not insulting? get real Richard.
We have had people commenting on this forum with decades of sailing experience and Craig has basically said they know nothing. It can only be defined as non-insultng because the idiot was, well - an idiot.
Craig has been claiming his 'Sail' data is valid - becuase he took an extreme piece of data and suggested it was typical of perfomance - that insulted anyone with any intelligence. One piece of data, possibly massaged, and he wants us to believe its representative. You might not be insulted but anyone with any idea of statistical significane was insulted - he took us for fools. Fortunately some of us stuck our heads up. - and still there are people who think he has positive assets?
Its not an insult to buy the property of man who has been your arch enemy for years, when maybe he is too ill do do anything indefence of his legacy, and use it to your advantage? We were not insulted, we thought it dispicable.
Craig claimed he was affilliated with Rocna, even the CEO says this is not true, he insulted us, maybe not an insult but he was certainly economic with the truth. The CEO was well aware of the depth of Craigs involvement on the forums - but did nothing, for months and years - if you do not feel insulted you have a very thick skin.
There are pages of this thread, and pages of other threads. There are insults in every one.
Where do you live?
Mars?
Richard,
I recall Craig saying, something like, of an article in an Italian yachting magazine, that did not show Rocna in a good light - it was just 'noise'. These guys spent hours out on the water, they did not do a bad job. They actually produced a sensible bit of prose - and Craig, the master of the anchor test on dry land, with the 2 speed winch, says its 'noise'. This is from a guy whose knowledge of anchoring has been learnt on the internet. That's not insulting? get real Richard.
We have had people commenting on this forum with decades of sailing experience and Craig has basically said they know nothing. It can only be defined as non-insultng because the idiot was, well - an idiot.
Craig has been claiming his 'Sail' data is valid - becuase he took an extreme piece of data and suggested it was typical of perfomance - that insulted anyone with any intelligence. One piece of data, possibly massaged, and he wants us to believe its representative. You might not be insulted but anyone with any idea of statistical significane was insulted - he took us for fools. Fortunately some of us stuck our heads up. - and still there are people who think he has positive assets?
Its not an insult to buy the property of man who has been your arch enemy for years, when maybe he is too ill do do anything indefence of his legacy, and use it to your advantage? We were not insulted, we thought it dispicable.
Craig claimed he was affilliated with Rocna, even the CEO says this is not true, he insulted us, maybe not an insult but he was certainly economic with the truth. The CEO was well aware of the depth of Craigs involvement on the forums - but did nothing, for months and years - if you do not feel insulted you have a very thick skin.
There are pages of this thread, and pages of other threads. There are insults in every one.
Where do you live?
Mars?
melandnick
New member
DJbangi
Here is the thing.
I find that most of your posts are directly or indirectly insulting to someone.
Of the 38 or so posts you have made ALL are about anchors and nearly all shout down Craig and/or Rocna.
So, no other interests?
No agenda?
Frankly you don’t ring true to me.
Nick
Here is the thing.
I find that most of your posts are directly or indirectly insulting to someone.
Of the 38 or so posts you have made ALL are about anchors and nearly all shout down Craig and/or Rocna.
So, no other interests?
No agenda?
Frankly you don’t ring true to me.
Nick
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