Anchors. I hate to do this but...

[Brian@Fortress]

Djbangi's agenda / Craig Smith is still "Affiliated"

If Djbangi's "agenda" is to expose and shed light upon the deplorable activities of a company within our industry, then I believe it is a noble one and I applaud his efforts.

And it is mind-numbing that there are those who will still come to the defense of Rocna after all of this. I must ask you, what more has to be exposed before you are repulsed as well?

By the way, I don't think that Craig Smith has received the memo from CEO Steve Bambury about not using "Affiliated with Rocna" anymore, as Craig is still back at it in the "multihulls4us" forum.

UPDATE: The memo has been received! The "Affiliated with Rocna" signature was removed this AM. Of course, the Anchorsmith still has the shiny little stainless Rocna anchor under his name. Can't give that up!

 

[melandnick]

If Djbangi's "agenda" is to expose and shed light upon the deplorable activities of a company within our industry, then I believe it is a noble one and I applaud his efforts.

And it is mind-numbing that there are those who will still come to the defense of Rocna after all of this. I must ask you, what more has to be exposed before you are repulsed as well?

By the way, I don't think that Craig Smith has received the memo from CEO Steve Bambury about not using "Associated with Rocna" anymore, as Craig is still back at it in the "multihulls4us" forum.

Hi Brian

I think perhaps you misunderstood the point of my post.
The Rocna thing has nothing to do with my comments.
I just think that some people are claiming the moral high ground and loosing it by doing the very thing they are complaining about.
And I believe it is important if someone’s agenda is possibly less than honourable.
Djbangi may be genuine, I don’t know the guy, but I find the facts a little suspicious.
And say he was a competitor, for instance, and saw this forum as an opportunity to have a dig at Rocna then how does that place him any differently to Craig slagging off the competition?
So if this were the case then, no, I don’t think that’s very noble.
Djbandi isn’t you is it Brian?

Only kidding!



Nick
PS
Thanks for the pdf’s and I am buying a fortress as a kedge

 

[Brian@Fortress]

Djbandi isn’t you is it Brian?

Nick,

Thanks for a much needed laugh!

Now if you will forgive me, I have to sign off for an appointment with my shrink to discuss my multiple personality disorder.....

 

[Mark-1]

Occasionally some poor demented soul will raise their head above the parapet and meekly proffer the opinion that they have no objection to Craig Smith's postings on the Scuttlebutt forum.

OK, I can see the men in white coats are coming so I've ducked down again now!

Richard (the not-so-lionheart)

I feel the same. I'm a grown up and am quite capable of factoring in the possibility that firms may big up themselves and criticize the opposition. Everyone else can too.

I'm a happy man if Craig continues to post stuff of this quality:

http://www.petersmith.net.nz/photos/antarctica-1.php

As for anchors, I've used a fair few in some pretty extreme conditions and they all seem to work brilliantly to me. However, I can definitively reveal the best one is... Hang on, phone's going.

 

[john_morris_uk]

This is from a guy whose knowledge of anchoring has been learnt on the internet.

I am NOT defending Craig - but I was under the impression that he had done a fair bit of sailing - albeit with his Dad - and so to say that his knowledge of anchoring is only from the internet is not accurate. For better or ill, I think Craig has a lot of experience of anchoring, but experience does not make him a person who one would trust. Speak as you find, and my experience us that he is young and blinkered and has fallen foul of his own overdeveloped sense of what is right and wrong about anchoring, tests and data. Or to put it another way, when you persistently annoy your potential customer base, it screws up the business that your family presumably has some interest in seeing succeed?

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Richard, Mark 1,

I've got no problem with you sticking your head above the parapet and having your say....that's what a forum is all about.

My problem is when a manufacturer comes on here and ruthlessly exploits the forum to relentlessly push his product. I needn't repeat everything about the misrepresentation, the unpleasant "knocking" of competitors etc etc.

I can't agree about CS not being rude. Time and again I have seen phrases such as "scam", "rubbish", "bigotry", "lie", "slander" "wilfully misinformed" etc....and this coming from somebody who is here simply to sell his product. If a salesman used that kind of vocabulary, in CS's patronizing manner, to me in my business, he would be out of the door before the sentence was finished. I could put it another way....what you are saying is complete and utter nonsense. (the words in italics have been cut and pasted from a posting on this site by CS a few days ago. It is not how I choose to express my disagreement with you, but I hope it illustrates my point!)

On a slightly separate point. It does amuse me that the only positive thing I have seen about any of CS's posting have been that people like his pictures! I stand to be corrected , but I can only recall one occasion when anyone said they have found his numerous anchor postings to be helpful, informed or, perish the thought, unbiased......... but I suppose that that's a cue for somebody to say just that

 

[Mark-1]

On a slightly separate point. It does amuse me that the only positive thing I have seen about any of CS's posting have been that people like his pictures!

To me the trips Craig's done and documented are outstanding. They may not be everyone's cup of tea but I'm very glad he shares them.

I can't recall anyone saying that they have found his numerous anchor posting to be helpful, informed or, perish the thought, unbiased.

Almost nobody would expect posts from someone with a vested interest in one product to be a source of either helpful or unbiased views.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Hi Brian

I think perhaps you misunderstood the point of my post.
The Rocna thing has nothing to do with my comments.
I just think that some people are claiming the moral high ground and loosing it by doing the very thing they are complaining about.

That's very much the impression I get from certain people who represent anchor manufacturers and even worse, those who slag off others in a public domain and remain anon'.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

On a slightly separate point. It does amuse me that the only positive thing I have seen about any of CS's posting have been that people like his pictures! I stand to be corrected , but I can't recall anyone saying that they have found his numerous anchor posting to be helpful, informed or, perish the thought, unbiased......... but I suppose that that's a cue for somebody to say just that

Hi Rigger
you must have missed me saying how I appreciated CS directing me to a certain website which gave me lots of tips for anchoring and especially guidance on how to make the rollbar anchors fit under a bowsprit.
S.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Almost nobody would expect posts from someone with a vested interest in one product to be a source of either helpful or unbiased views.

Mark,

I agree with 50% of what you say. Nobody would expect a manufacturer to be unbiased.
However, with the exception of CS, I cannot recall any manufacturers postings which have not been helpful. As a rule, when manufacturers come on this site they answer straightforward questions with straightforward answers.....usually a technical answer about their product. They do not knock the competition. They then withdraw, and they certainly do not post hundreds of times about their product.

Granted, on this thread there have been some slightly intemperate posts from CS's competitors but I would defend them on the grounds that they have been subject to CS's taunting behaviour for years. It's the exception which proves the rule.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Hi Rigger
you must have missed me saying how I appreciated CS directing me to a certain website which gave me lots of tips for anchoring and especially guidance on how to make the rollbar anchors fit under a bowsprit.
S.

Would you like me to edit my post to say that "I can only recall one occasion"

 

[Quandary]

I hate to add to this thread but while I have no particular brief for Craig or his fathers invention I hope that the hysterical vituperation directed against him does not mean that we will not hear from again. One of the forums real characters with plenty to contribute whose main failing seems to be his perceived youth (should we introduce age limits?)

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Would you like me to edit my post to say that "I can only recall one occasion"

why not?
One occasion for several reasons
I also looked at several other anchor websites, read several articles, talked to those with far more experience than me before I chose the anchor I have.

 

[Dockhead]

Hi Rigger
you must have missed me saying how I appreciated CS directing me to a certain website which gave me lots of tips for anchoring and especially guidance on how to make the rollbar anchors fit under a bowsprit.
S.

He's very, very knowledgeable, and very helpful. It is true that he is a relentless propagandist, which sadly distracts from his very great contributions to anchoring discussions.

 

[Djbangi]

Sadly I do have an agenda,

I dislike most of Craig's content. I find much of it distastefull, much of it misleading and some of it downright dishonest. Or if it is not dishonest - that is Craig's and Rocna's fault for not correcting and providing fuller information.

We are told they have Classification Society certification. For those defending them, Craig and Rocna, have any of you seen a certificate? This claim has gone on for months - where is the certificate. They claim to use Hi Tensile steel, do any of you know the specification of that steel. Good Hi tensile steel is 4 x the strength of mild steel and costs about twice as much. I wonder what Rocna use, I wonder why they do not declare the quality. They claim Manson copied their design, guess what Spade said of the Rocna.

No if you like this continual barrage of misrepresentation from Crain and Rocna I have no problems but I for one think it is incorrect. And no I do not contribute to other forums or threads because anchors are the only topic where you see this sort of misrepresentation.

There is a difference between someone who takes full responsibility for a yacht, he might be called the skipper - and when the chips are down it is his call, and a crew member. Skippers need to know, crew members - not so.

I have no relationship at all with any anchor manufacturer, I have no relationship with anyone who produces item for the marine industry. As I said in an earlier post I am a very simple yachtie. I am not Brian, or anyone else on this thread or Forum. I use an anchor on long summer cruises virtually every night so 90 - 150 nights, possibly 30-40 anchorages. I'm the skipper - I take responsibility for where, and how we anchor. I have used a Rocna, Supreme, various Bruce types - Manson and Lewmar (never a genuine one), CQR, Danforth genuine, Excel, Ultra and Spade. I have never used these anchors with a 4x4 nor on a muddy beach I use mine in the sea. I might as a result of this usage have a little knowledge of anchoring.

Craig might make a good contribution but for me he destroys any credibility with his negative content. He has also claimed to represent Rocna, which turns out not to be the case. This makes me wonder what other claims have been made that are also untrue. Rocna might be good anchors but they have destroyed any credibility by hiding behind Craig and not providing documentary evidence to substantiate their cliams. If you like Craig and Rocna I might not understand you - but that is your decision. It would not do if we all agreed with each other.

Have a good evening

 

[Ubergeekian]

If you mean "been rude or offensive to" then I can't recall Craig Smith ever doing that to anyone.

Oh, I think some of the other anchor manufacturers he has accused of malpractice might well see him as both rude and offensive.

Still, seems he's had his arse well spanked this time.

 

[snowleopard]

Almost nobody would expect posts from someone with a vested interest in one product to be a source of either helpful or unbiased views.

No one would ever have accused Hylas of being unbiased.

 

[vyv_cox]

I have found many of Craig's technical posts to be both accurate and useful. On a point of order he has stated in the past that the stock material of a Rocna is a Bisalloy, I don't remember the grade but I'm pretty sure he gave it. He has also given the grade and some details as to metallurgical condition of the fluke. Quite recently he discussed the classification society's requirements so far as carbon content is concerned and how Rocna complied with them. I suggest this is far more than most of the others have done.

 

[Djbangi]

Do you wanna get rocknad (with apologies to Def Leppard)

To answer 2 specific queries, one from from Melandnick - my wife and I sail around 2,000nm a year, we sail a multi, have owned her for 10 years, done 20,000nm - we have plenty of interests, so there is no need for you to worry on our behalf as to whether we have other interests. Craig and Rocna have been a focus for previously stated reasons - if those reasons are 'condemned' as a high moral stance - I can live with that. For those who want to follow the low moral ground - good luck to you.

And for Scotty Twister et al - if you identify I have supported any specific anchor maker please define. If my contribution has been found at variance with a number of others please define. I could have been an anchor maker, but I am not. I could have had a vested interest in a chandler who could not get a Rocna distributorship, but I do not, etc etc. If you find I have supported anyone advatageously, please advise. I hope that my postings have been balanced toward all other anchor makers - making any questions about anonimity superfluous.

I for one would find it sad if the Rocna design disappeared. The design is adequate and it is as good as many others. To have different designs and suppliers is healthy and it would normally keep everyone honest. Basically its good for the buyer.

I do not think the activity that has been part of the anchor industry and has been exposed, call it anchorsmithing (no one will google that!), on this thread is healthy. It would be good to see Rocna rehabilitated - but the first moves need come from them and as time slowly passes the size of those moves need to get bigger as we will simply miss them (and you can read into the last 5 words what you like).

And sincere apologies to Brian. I am embarassed that someone would have been so crass to suggest you and I were one and the same. I took it as a compliment, I am sorry if you were offended. Humour can be a double edged sword, the other side being sarcasm.

All the best.

 

[Brian@Fortress]

And sincere apologies to Brian. I am embarassed that someone would have been so crass to suggest you and I were one and the same. I took it as a compliment, I am sorry if you were offended. Humour can be a double edged sword, the other side being sarcasm.

All the best.

Thanks for the kind words. No apologies needed, it was intended as a joke and I took it as such, and I enjoyed a hearty laugh from it. I would have to be some kind of crazy to be able to write as insightful & thoroughly as you do, and then "dumb down" back to myself.