Anchor chain length

[john_morris_uk]

I don't want to start a big debate, but what's the current thinking on how much chain one should carry? I'm about to order some new chain as we've been getting by on the 40 metres that we inherited with the boat for the last ten years. As the time for setting off into the deep blue gets closer it's another thing to tick of the prep list.

So what's reasonable and please don't say 'as long as possible!'

80 metres?
100 metres.

We plan on ending up in the Pacific at some point.

The boats a Westerly Sealord with a Lofrans windlass. 10 mm chain and the hook on the end is a Spade. The kedge is a Fortress.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I don't think you can have too much chain but on the other hand you have weight to consider , we have 85 mts now and there been time when we used it all

 

[john_morris_uk]

I don't think you can have too much chain but on the other hand you have weight to consider , we have 85 mts now and there been time when we used it all

Too long might be too much weight in the end and not enough room in the locker...

100 metres seems to be the most I've heard carried?

 

[vyv_cox]

We carried 50 metres for many years, sufficient for most waters around UK, North Sea, Baltic and Atlantic France. In Corsica and Sardinia there were a couple of occasions when 50 was not enough and we increased to 60. This has always been sufficient since but I am told that more may be needed in Turkey. The only times we put it all, or nearly all out is stern-to in Greek harbours. There are few places around the world with a greater tidal range than we have sailed in and I question the need for very much more, except for hurricane conditions. So maybe 80 max.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Too long might be too much weight in the end and not enough room in the locker...

100 metres seems to be the most I've heard carried?

There was a few times last year in croatia we had to drop in 25 plus , when we wished we had more and this year it nothing to anchor in 20 mts plus Also it comes in very handy when you need to go onto town walls , some cN be deep well before you start to drop .

 

[sarabande]

Catenaries, JM, catenaries, it's all about weight and scope to enable the Spade* to do its job at the correct angle into the sea bed

* other anchors may be substituted according to preference.


Peter Smith has a good article here

http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/catenary.php


He makes a case that there is a maximum effective length for chain (depending on link size/weight, forces pushing the boat back) beyond which it will be advantageous to just add rope.


EDIT

That is supported by John Knox's post, here,

http://www.anchorwatch.co.uk/index-page04.htm

where he gives empirical formulae to provide a max length of chain for wind force and size of boat.


If you end up with 100m of 10mm quality chain out, and it is nearly straight line then perhaps it's too late to take up gardening. I can't see any theoretical advantage is going beypod 100, and the practical disadvantages (mass in the fore ends) are beginning to be substantial.


Yerss, mass in the fore ends......

 

[john_morris_uk]

Catenaries, JM, catenaries, it's all about weight and scope to enable the Spade* to do its job at the correct angle into the sea bed

* other anchors may be substituted according to preference.


Peter Smith has a good article here

http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/catenary.php


He makes a case that there is a maximum effective length for chain (depending on link size/weight, forces pushing the boat back) beyond which it will be advantageous to just add rope.


EDIT

That is supported by John Knox's post, here,

http://www.anchorwatch.co.uk/index-page04.htm

where he gives empirical formulae to provide a max length of chain for wind force and size of boat.


If you end up with 100m of 10mm quality chain out, and it is nearly straight line then perhaps it's too late to take up gardening. I can't see any theoretical advantage is going beypod 100, and the practical disadvantages (mass in the fore ends) are beginning to be substantial.


Yerss, mass in the fore ends......

I agree; although many people argue that when the conditions really get tough, there isn't much catenary... We normally add a chain hook and some nylon rode to absorb shock loads and provide some 'spring'.

Its maximum expected anchoring depths I was more worried about. I remember stooging around in the dark in the small hours in New Grimsby Sound, Isles of Scilly, last summer and wishing we had more chain so that I could have anchored in deeper water. If we are heading off for even nicer (is that possible?) places, I was wondering what the collective wisdom was on desirable lengths of rode...

 

[jimbaerselman]

12m LOA, 10 tons displacement, fitted 70m of 8mm chain with a 30m nylon rope tail.

Cruising 10 years all coastlines from Scotland to all the Med except N Sea, Africa and Levant coasts (exception, Tunisia) the only time I used over 70metres was to anchor in St Brelades bay, Jersey. This was a planned diversion to take a rest if crew felt bust beating into NW6/7. Preparing to anchor, engine stopped prematurely (another story, diesel bug, all shook up, big lesson learnt about clean fuel). High tide springs, we were going to lose 10m. Current depth, 15m. With our Britany, that meant 90m for 30kts. Out went the whole lot. Well, except for the bitter end!

Never used the whole chain again, except for a badly mis-judged anchor + line ashore job in Ilica Buku, N side of the Bodrum Peninsula.

Catenary? Forget about it one the boat starts tacking side to side to the anchor. And forget if there's a seaway. Add 20m or more of nylon snubber - gives you 2m - 3m of spring. Much more effective at softening the ride.

 

[duncan99210]

We left UK with 50 metres, added another twenty in Spain and now have 80 metres. That's about as much as I'd like in the locker due to the weight: if we were ever to find we needed more on a regular basis, I'd add say 50 metres of rope rather than anymore chain.

 

[GHA]

I have 60m plus probably another 50m multiplait (14 or 16mm). Very rarely used all the chain. More would be nice as lying to rope causes some nervousness, even though if you keep an eye on chafe it's fine. Agree a good snubber setup is essential, when you need it most the catinery is gone and the chain off the sea bed.

If the money was being spent again I'd be temped if going down a size of chain but longer and up a size of anchor, though sacrificing some damping of sailing around the anchorage.
All compromises as ever

 

[Robin]

Not world girdlers but we carried 60 metres of all 10mm chain ( with some extra nylon if needed but never was) when in UK/Europe and have replaced the short chain and long string with 35lb claw that we inherited on our current boat with 150ft of 3/8 chain and a bigger 45lb Delta, but as you know the depths round here are minimal, where 20 feet is hard to find. The weight up front never noticeably affected Heartbeat's excellent performance and on our current boat serves to offset the weight of the RIB in davits on the stern and keep us in level trim fore/aft . It is too late when out in the boonies to wish you had bought more.

 

[BobnLesley]

I don't want to start a big debate...

In your dreams!

We sailed a 27-footer UK & Med with 50m of 8mm chain and never (even in Turkey) needed more, though we chose our anchorage a couple of times accordingly, as we hand-hauled it too, but I'd consider that insufficient for your Sealord. Our current 35-footer came with 60m of 10mm which we've just replaced (actually, until we're through this Hurricane season, we're carrying both!) with 70m of 10mm. There was only once we thought 60m was insufficient, but we too have plans for the Pacific and prior to deciding 'how long' we asked a couple of friends already out that way for an opinion (one has 60m, the other 90m and both said they had the correct amount?)

Note Jim B's comment about catenary/snubbers, the catenary effect only comes into play in really deep water - look at all the yachts in any anchorage when it's blowing 30+ knots, the chains are all bar-tight. Having said that, I still like the 'weight' of chain and declined the suggestion that I could replace our 10mm chain with one of the high-strength 8mm alternatives; only an opinion based on looking around, but I believe yachts on lighter chains dance around their anchors more?

Several people have referred to the weight issue and whilst chains not light stuff, 10m either way won't make a significant difference unless you're going racing; it's about the same as stuffing a small child into the anchor locker; easier really, as the small child will probably struggle a bit on the way in and get really messy when you haul it out through the windlass. What hasn't been mentioned though is 'space'; we had a friend who renewed his anchor chain, going from 40 - 60m and forever after had problems with it jamming on the last few metres of the lift - no longer had enough 'drop' into the locker - but having paid for the extra chain, was reluctant to cut/shorten it; give it some consideration as that's not a problem that you want lurking if you need to make a fast lift in the dark, rain and a howling wind and let's be honest, those sort of lifts are only ever necessary in the dark.

 

[KellysEye]

Long distance sailing we carried 85 meters of 8mm test chain and two 30 metres lengths of chain plus 100 metres rope rope for two other anchors, one a Fortress as a second anchor and the other a Monster Fortress for a storm anchor.

 

[Bitterend]

On only 3-4 occasions did I need more than 50 metres of chain although I carried 80 metres. As said before, you are more likely to use lots of chain when stern-to in a med marina or on a town quay. The use of a nylon spring can't be overstated to use as a spring to stop snatching and make life safer and more comfortable Also, the spring is much more effective if taken to a mid or cockpit cleat rather than tied off on the foredeck. Some people use 50% chain and 50% nylon rope lengths, giving extra overall length and built-in spring. Another option is to go for higher grade 7 chain of smaller size ,but equal or greater to the safe working load of grade 4 chain. Ok it costs more, but all yachties are millionaires aren't they!! http://www.aquachain.it/pagina/en/15/AQUA-7-CERT.aspx
It's also good practice to reverse the ends of your chain each year so you don't end up with a rusted mass in the chain locker.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Bobnlesey , I not sure where you anchored in Turkey , but laterly we regularly been anchoring in 20 plus mts
A , because most of the shollow parts are taken up by others
B , because there just not the swinging room
C , it just too deep in some of the anchorages ,
Just yesturday near Yat marina , the closers we could drop was 22 mts under the keel . @ a min of 3 to 1 that's 69 and has I never drop less 4 to 1 ,that's 90 mts if possable 5 to 1 .
This is one reason people drag , they don't let out enough scope .
50 mts of chain will just about get you in 12 mts @ 4 to 1 and only 10 mts at 5 to 1 ,
To night we luck , we in 12 mts , it blowing 32 kts , but even that @ 5 to 1 is 60 mts,
Yes offcause there are shollow part but there are lots of reasons you can't anchor there , ie swimming buoys , rocks , space taken up , too close to other boats ( unlike many , we respect other people room ) given them room to swing and drag a little .
We offen been stern to rocks and just three boat lengths out at times it been too deep for us to drop .
What tends to happen when people don't have enough chain
A they find it too deep and having to go else where
B they squeeze between other yacht ending being too close
And
C worst of all drop what they have and hope for the best .
We all love to anchor in 3 mts below the keel , but in this day and age with so many boats it not alway possiable

 

[TQA]

38 ft then 44 ft boats 13 years a full time anchor out liveaboard UK Europe Caribbean and Eastern USA.

200 ft of chain has been enough with a further 200ft of rope for the very rare occasion I anchor in 100 ft .

 

[BobnLesley]

Hi Vic, the post perhaps did need a bit of clarification:

"...I not sure where you anchored in Turkey , but laterly we regularly been anchoring in 20 plus mts..."

Small yachts can get into smaller corners and hand-hauling a 15kg anchor + chain tends to get looking a bit more carefully for a suitable spot and improving/adapting anchoring techniques, I doubt we anchored in more than 12m above half-a-dozen times during the six years we were in the Med; as an example, we stopped quite a few times at that first Koyu on the west side as you enter Fethiye Bay, Kizilkuyruk or something like that?

The visiting yachts tended to drop anchor in 14 - 20m then tie back to the rocky cliff on the south side; deep water, moderate holding and on those evenings when the breeze picked-up, they caught it hard on the port beam. We on the other hand motored straight toward the beach at the head of the bay and once we'd passed the last anchored yacht, would drop a stern anchor on a very long rode in around 6-8m, in clean sand, dig it in as we continued motoring forward, then just before we ran out of stern-anchor rode (or were going to hit the beach!) we dropped the bow anchor - usually in about 2m - reversed off by hauling-in/shortening the stern anchor rode, whilst paying out on the bow anchor (a bit of hard engine reverse to dig it in at some point) and voila, you are securely anchored fore and aft, with 25-30m at each end in around 5m of water, the evening breeze comes over the bow not the beam, you're not worrying about who is going to cross/trip your anchor and you didn't even get your feet wet doing it. Like all my better ideas, I stole it from someone else - watch the local Turkish fishing boats, that's the way they often do it.

"...We all love to anchor in 3 mts below the keel , but in this day and age with so many boats it not alway possiable..."

We didn't as that put us in 'competition' with all the other yachts who were desperately trying to drop their anchor in the 4.5 - 6m depth range; why? Apart from a few isolated areas, the Med has some well behaved water that stays where it's been put, so the rise/fall of the tide can be discounted; we drew 1.2m and for preference liked to anchor in 2.1 - 2.5m, 3m at most. It made for a shorter dinghy ride to the shore, better protection from the wind and kept us clear of the melee around 17:00 when the yachts began arriving en-masse. I have lost count of the number of times we've entered an anchorage to see the front rank of boats sat in perhaps 4m of water and those arriving later unquestioningly drop their anchors between/behind them, assuming we think that "It must be shallow further in?". We will keep mooching forward (on more than one occasion up to 200m further inshore!) and drop our anchor in say 2.5m. we would then find that we've now delineated a new safe/front line and the boats coming after would anchor of the back of us - not many came alongside - and even a few of the previously anchored boats would raise the hook, mooch in a bit and re-drop.

As to 'where' we anchored; well most of the regular spots, but dozens of others besides: Consider the weather, then look at your charts and nose in watching the echo-sounder closely. There was and probably still is a misconception held by the overwhelming majority of Med yotties, that the only places to anchor are those bays for which there's a chartlet in the Gospels according to Saint Rodney - the Caribbean's just the same we're forever hearing "but Chris Doyle says...". Alternatively, despite a big and unusual southerly blow being forecast for that evening, people drop the hook in an anchorage that's wide open to that direction, then bitch afterwards about having had a rough night, when Rod-the-God had said it was well-sheltered. Doh!

 

[RichardS]

We had 50m in Croatia for a few years but there were several occasions when it was not enough. For the last 2 years we have had 100m and although we have only used all of that on a couple of occasions I've never wished for more. We could carry more but it's not necessary.

Richard

 

[sailaboutvic]

Thanks for explain that BOB .
This is the problem with trying to give an honesty answer to question like asked by the OP . Different size boat with different draft doing a combination of cruising . So we all tend to speak from our own experiences .
When we sailed on the East coast we had a CQR with 30 mts of chain and rope , it done the job nicely , thick sticky mud of the river Orwell , Deben and Ord , lovely Jubilee, we use to have a bigger problem getting it out then getting it in , but I wouldn't dream of going off cruising equip with just that , not likely .
85 mts of 10 mm chain means we have a lot of chose where we want to anchor , an 20 kg Rocna mean as long as we do our job right we wake up in the same place we was the night before . Unless someone else decide to drag onto us .
I would never use chain and rope , ( AlthoughI I use to once ) I seen to many boats on the rocks in my time with a broken rope hanging over the bow . Others will swear by it , saving weight so they say , more like saving money .
But in the end , you pay your money and take you chance

 

[temptress]

We have 85m of chain on the main anchor and 30m of chain plus 150m or warp for the second. with 6m of chain and 70m warp for the kedge.

We regularly use 50to 60m of chain and have only once used all 85m. We have deployed both anchors together occasionally.