Anchor chain 8mm or 10mm

[geem]

I don't expect you to take me seriously but I's go for G70 x 8mm - and I am serious.

A decent snubber will replace catenary, the weight and space savings are large.

Your yacht has a similar windage to our 38' x 22'6" catamaran - and we used 6mm

Jonathan

I used to sail a 37 catamaran. To maintain good sailing performance, it was essential to minimise weight. We kept the boat super light. Plastic plates and glasses, minimal spares, foam core panels under bunks instead of marine ply. Foam core doors, table, shelves, etc We had a saw you tooth brush in half to save weight sort of mentality.
We got sick of not being able to carry all our toys and provision for long periods. We made the decision to go back to a monohull.
The reality of cruising a monhull compared to a catamaran is that weight is a minor problem not a major problem like it is on a cat. Most monohulls, regardless of whether they are a lightweight production boat or a bluewater heavy displacement, are fully loaded once you are living aboard. There are a number of cruising couples heading off to the Med or Caribbean here on a range of boats. The common denominator is we are all trying to pack everything we want on the boat. We are full of gear. We could never do that on the cat. An extra few kg in the bow is not an issue.
If you were racing around the cans every weekend, then you probably don't carry chain anyway.

 

[NormanS]

I don't expect you to take me seriously but I's go for G70 x 8mm - and I am serious.

A decent snubber will replace catenary, the weight and space savings are large.

Your yacht has a similar windage to our 38' x 22'6" catamaran - and we used 6mm

Jonathan

Repetition

 

[Neeves]

Repetition

In case you have not noticed there are new members on the Forum. They have not lived on the Forum as a source of entertainment or income.

I don't cater for people with a low attention span and easily bored - I try to cater for the new members.

I suggest if you find my posts boring you put me on 'ignore'. Its a simple and effective tool. The fact you continue to read my posts suggests you enjoy beating yourself.

The choice is in your hands - and it is simple.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

I used to sail a 37 catamaran. To maintain good sailing performance, it was essential to minimise weight. We kept the boat super light. Plastic plates and glasses, minimal spares, foam core panels under bunks instead of marine ply. Foam core doors, table, shelves, etc We had a saw you tooth brush in half to save weight sort of mentality.
We got sick of not being able to carry all our toys and provision for long periods. We made the decision to go back to a monohull.
The reality of cruising a monhull compared to a catamaran is that weight is a minor problem not a major problem like it is on a cat. Most monohulls, regardless of whether they are a lightweight production boat or a bluewater heavy displacement, are fully loaded once you are living aboard. There are a number of cruising couples heading off to the Med or Caribbean here on a range of boats. The common denominator is we are all trying to pack everything we want on the boat. We are full of gear. We could never do that on the cat. An extra few kg in the bow is not an issue.
If you were racing around the cans every weekend, then you probably don't carry chain anyway.

I feel the need for speed.

Jonathan

 

[geem]

I feel the need for speed.

Jonathan

And that's why you need to keep a cat light.
In a monohull, designed as a cruising boat, they all suffer a varying degree as you add weight. Beneteau First range of boats are at sportier side of the spectrum, and they take loaded weight poorly. They soon gobble up the waterline as you add weight. We met a cruising family on one who had painted the original waterline up 6 inches and they were still showing little of the bottom paint. Severely over loaded.
The round bilge heavier designs of cruising boats can take substantial weight without a substantial loss in performance. We are always well loaded but still manage average passage speeds higher than we did in our old catamaran. The cat was great for bursts of speeds but not for good averages on long passages.

 

[Neeves]

And that's why you need to keep a cat light.
In a monohull, designed as a cruising boat, they all suffer a varying degree as you add weight. Beneteau First range of boats are at sportier side of the spectrum, and they take loaded weight poorly. They soon gobble up the waterline as you add weight. We met a cruising family on one who had painted the original waterline up 6 inches and they were still showing little of the bottom paint. Severely over loaded.
The round bilge heavier designs of cruising boats can take substantial weight without a substantial loss in performance. We are always well loaded but still manage average passage speeds higher than we did in our old catamaran. The cat was great for bursts of speeds but not for good averages on long passages.

(I think) Its good we are all different.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

One of the great advantages of a multihull is to venture where a monohull owner fears to tread The price for such a characteristic is the inability to heel. .

The location, for those of mature years, is where the Petrov's were secreted.



Jonathan

 

[Sea Change]

If you want to go down the route of thinner, lighter, rode, and are happy to accept reduced lifespan, surely the logical endpoint is just to use all rope? Especially if you rarely anchor.

 

[geem]

One of the great advantages of a multihull is to venture where a monohull owner fears to tread The price for such a characteristic is the inability to heel. .

The location, for those of mature years, is where the Petrov's were secreted.

View attachment 196071

Jonathan

Been there done that. Not a useful feature in the Caribbean with 1 foot tides. The inability to heal needs balancing against the bumpier ride and the difficulty of sleeping in bumpy conditions at sea on long passages due to the noise of all that surface water.
Like you said. We are all different but I have experienced both momo and cat and took both types trans Atlantic as skipper. From this experience I have made my decision

 

[noelex]

If you want to go down the route of thinner, lighter, rode, and are happy to accept reduced lifespan, surely the logical endpoint is just to use all rope? Especially if you rarely anchor.

A significant disadvantage of rope rode is its susceptibility to chafe. Although the risk is not substantial, there are potential hazards such as debris, wrecks, and isolated rocks that are difficult to anticipate.

G70 (or higher) allows for thinner, lighter chain while eliminating this concern. This thinner chain certainly has its place and can be the optimal solution in some cases. The ideal use case is a lightweight catamaran or a monohull that does not have an electric anchor winch. It helps if the owner does not anchor often

As with any equipment selection, there are both advantages and disadvantages. Regrettably, certain posts in this forum merely propose that lightweight chains are the optimal solution for all circumstances.

 

[zoidberg]

F-18 Pilot - "I feel the need...."
Chorus - "....the need for speed!"

I'm a long-term lurker hereabouts, and I was persuaded - for my purposes - to change down size/weight and change up strength. The arguments above spell out most of the considerations, and 'eddystone' can pick 'n mix as well as the rest of us.

I note he's based in NW Devon, not the Carib Ocean nor Oz. I know that area and its conditions - 'They do things different there....'

Once I'd decided on what I wanted ( Vyv Cox and Jon Neeves' views were helpful to me ), there's one valuable - I say again 'valuable' - point I learned.
I ordered and purchased from a specialist in commercial lifting gear, one of two agents recommended by the chain manufacturer's UK agent. The one I spoke to first, a prominent and old-established rigging/chandlery business not very far south of The Hamble, wanted 'zackly 50% more £££s than the lifting chain specialist near Bristol.... for exactly the same product ordered from the national distributor, delivered on a pallet.
I picked the chain up; they loaded into my estate car. More ££ saving.

Given the OP 'eddystone' lives not all that far away, perhaps a phone call might save quite a lot of beer tokens.

 

[Tranona]

F-18 Pilot - "I feel the need...."
Chorus - "....the need for speed!"

I'm a long-term lurker hereabouts, and I was persuaded - for my purposes - to change down size/weight and change up strength. The arguments above spell out most of the considerations, and 'eddystone' can pick 'n mix as well as the rest of us.

I note he's based in NW Devon, not the Carib Ocean nor Oz. I know that area and its conditions - 'They do things different there....'

Actually if you follow his other threads he is preparing the boat to go across the pond and base in the Caribbean. it is brave of him as it is a Bavaria but i am sure like many before him it will be a success - even if he keeps the copy CQR that came with the boat (although he has already decided on a Rocna)

 

[zoidberg]

Actually if you follow his other threads....

Thanks. My 'attention span' functional memory is at fault.....

 

[Neeves]

F-18 Pilot - "I feel the need...."
Chorus - "....the need for speed!"

I'm a long-term lurker hereabouts, and I was persuaded - for my purposes - to change down size/weight and change up strength. The arguments above spell out most of the considerations, and 'eddystone' can pick 'n mix as well as the rest of us.

I note he's based in NW Devon, not the Carib Ocean nor Oz. I know that area and its conditions - 'They do things different there....'

Once I'd decided on what I wanted ( Vyv Cox and Jon Neeves' views were helpful to me ), there's one valuable - I say again 'valuable' - point I learned.
I ordered and purchased from a specialist in commercial lifting gear, one of two agents recommended by the chain manufacturer's UK agent. The one I spoke to first, a prominent and old-established rigging/chandlery business not very far south of The Hamble, wanted 'zackly 50% more £££s than the lifting chain specialist near Bristol.... for exactly the same product ordered from the national distributor, delivered on a pallet.
I picked the chain up; they loaded into my estate car. More ££ saving.

Given the OP 'eddystone' lives not all that far away, perhaps a phone call might save quite a lot of beer tokens.

The Gunnebo solution is an off the shelf answer as is buying MF from Jimmy Green

There is one, or another, caveat. The Gunnebo link wire size, to achieve the strength, is Xmm + 10% (check the size spec above). So the wire is 'fat'. I don't know if it fits a conventional gypsy of Xmm. This does not matter if you hand deploy and retrieve - which is easy at small chain sizes but back breaking beyond 8mm (personally I found it back breaking at 8mm). Strength is not an issue - the Gunnebo chain is as strong as you can get and moving down 2 sizes, say from 10mm to 6mm is feasible (noting that most rodes are oversized in the first place)

There is an easy solution - buy a few links and try it on your gypsy.

The other option is to buy

MF CATENIFICIO FRIGERIO SRL

via Jimmy Green, Jimmy Green do not seem to retail 6mm but MF certainly make the small size.

The other factor to be aware of, if you down size, is that your need the same size, or strength shackle and the shackle might not fit the smaller chain - you need a large link at the end of the rode (both ends and then you can end for end). The answer is a hammerlock, preferred, or omega link and if you go the Gunnebo route make sure the shackle, connectors and chain - all fit (as that + 10% might be a killer)..

The chains I manage have the same issue of the need for the larger end link - and its part of my free service. I recommend people buy extra large links - in case they lose the gal on the enlarged link and it corrodes. My chains are to a standard metric link size (EN818), no extra 10%, and fit a conventional metric gypsy.

I note Geems comment that most owners will not bother to buy grit blasted lifting chain, to EN818 - the standard spec, and have it galvanised but its quite simple and Sharadising is probably the process in the UK on which to focus. Buy the connectors from the same dealer as the chain and have the whole lot galvanised to my 100 micron coating thickness - (it is PBO) and if you check prices of the chain - not very expensive (though I don't know UK Sheradising costs).

I find Geem's comment interesting - people make their own chain plates, repair their sails, service their engines, repair damaged fibre glass, build solid helm stations - why not make you own rode (its easy to have it tested) - which is more than can be said for making your own chain plates for a drogue. Proof testing, non destructive, is standard practice for chain and UTS (destructive) is possible from each end of the rode.. If you make your own you can test gal thickness along the whole rode - which you will not get on an off the shelf solution - you will not get a gal thickness, at all - and what determines chain life.......?

Jonathan

 

[eddystone]

Actually if you follow his other threads he is preparing the boat to go across the pond and base in the Caribbean. it is brave of him as it is a Bavaria but i am sure like many before him it will be a success - even if he keeps the copy CQR that came with the boat (although he has already decided on a Rocna)

Well it might be a Bavaria but at least it’s an older Bavaria and I have checked the keel is still stuck on at least until an Orca or two gets up close and personal.
It looks to me as if there is room for an extra 10metres of cable in the anchor locker. No idea make or model of windlass so chances of swapping gypsy for smaller chain seems remote

 

[Tranona]

Well it might be a Bavaria but at least it’s an older Bavaria and I have checked the keel is still stuck on at least until an Orca or two gets up close and personal.
It looks to me as if there is room for an extra 10metres of cable in the anchor locker. No idea make or model of windlass so chances of swapping gypsy for smaller chain seems remote

My comment was tongue in cheek as there are some here who still think they are not suitable for what you are planning.

You may well find value in raising the bottom of the anchor locker as it is usually full of water. While there seems to be enough volume in the locker expect you will find once it is over half full that the chain piles up and you need to clear it to keep it running. The original windlass would likely have been an SL but they were rubbish and in 2000/2001 Bavaria switched to Lofrans which is an excellent product.

My first experience with Bavaria was chartering a 42 just like yours in Corfu. We liked it so much we bought a new 37 the next year . Worked it hard as a charter boat then sailed it back to UK and kept it for a further 5 years.

I am sure you will get good service out of it. That model hit a sweet spot and is still hard to beat in terms of value.

 

[eddystone]

Does this look like SL or Lofrans?

 

[PaulRainbow]

That is a Simpson-Lawrence

 

[Neeves]

Does this look like SL or Lofrans?View attachment 196129

When we downsized we were strongly motivated toward a lighter rode. Our windlass worked, but it was 20 years old. We investigated a new gypsy and it was worth more than the aged windlass.

We retired the windlass and invested in the lighter rode, 6mm replacing 8mm.

The decision would have been difficult if the windlass had been new(er).

We shopped around and the maker of the old windlass was not particularly interested in the concept of downsizing chain - and were dismissive. Another supplier bent over backwards to help and suggested a '8mm' windlass with a 6mm gypsy and use of the same sized motor, 1,000 watt.

The new windlass with the new chain a revelation, so quick, no issues with solenoids, attentive installation support (I installed). We would never have known windlass could be so dependable and companies so attentive - had we not changed to 6mm. Cats tend to have shallow lockers - not an issue with 6mm chain.


Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

Yes, an SL. Surprised it has lasted this long, but guess the boat has done little anchoring compared charter usage in the Ionian where they did not last a season - if you were lucky. Replacement is a Lofrans Cayman 88. If you do go down that route, their only weakness is stainless fastenings in an aluminium housing so remove them and put back with Duralec. Also paint the bottom and don't use the soft pad that comes with it. Otherwise pretty bullet proof. Available with 8 or 10mm gypsy.