grumpy_o_g
Well-known member
Try ringing the British Kiel Yacht Club for advice. They should know the good guys and bad guys in that area.
Am i being ripped off in germany?
- Thread starter alisdair4
- Start date
PetiteFleur
Well-known member
Beta will make engine mountings to suit your engine bearers - mine cost(from memory) about £100 extra and this avoided me cutting out the old bearers and making new ones and bonding them in position.
30boat
N/A
I have reengined a few boats two of them had Bukhs that were replaced with Beta 20s.There's no way it can take as long as they claim and the fabricating of the stainless adapters can be acomplished in maybe two or three days tops.I'm sure you're being ripped off by these people.Changing the skin fitting is less than an afternoons work especially if the engine is out of the way.I advise you to fit a Volvo seal,you'll never have troubles in that area again.
For that money I'd fly over, book into a top hotel and get the work done in a week
For that money I'd fly over, book into a top hotel and get the work done in a week
alisdair4
Member
30Boat I actually live in Germany, just, currently, in the wrong part! My enemy here is time to actually be on-site. I will check the make of the seal (which is being replaced as part of this job).
BrianH
Active member
I do not know, I have never changed an engine before and am merely quoting the mechanic's verbal approximation - his formal offer shows €2'500 for labour. Yes, a bit of a round number but I can accept something of a guesstimate for such work.
I do not think he is practicing a "typical "marine" rip-off" because he has worked on my engine enough this summer to keep it running for me to judge his honesty and pricing, which has been more than fair - even to making a second oil change (the original trigger for my problems was water in the oil) for no labour cost, to be sure the adulteration was cleared. He also provided a replacement alternator for free from his stock of old engines he has replaced (lots of Volvo Pentas).
In short, I trust him and he came well recommended, other customers speak highly of his integrity and his dependability - the latter not always so easy to find here.
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Signed Out
Active member
I agree that this example is quite close to the mark, if only half a knot or so is to be expected (hoped for), but sometimes the little differences are quite important, no matter what being made to. Perhaps those 12 nm over several days will be helpful. and then on the other hand, when what you have is slow and sluggish, sometimes it's worth eeking out what you can get, surely.
Reminds me of "weight weenie" discussions on 2 wheeled sites (motored & non), where there is a level of sense, and then extremes either way. The usual "you'd do better to lose a few pounds, har har" sentiment is all very well, but generally people work with what they've got and try to make the best of it. And being males (largely), these little numbers mean a lot.
And when I had a steel 35 footer, 21hp was plenty (for me), so 20 not being enough in a GRP 32 footer is surprising.
alisdair4
Member
Weight weenies?
MrJemm. Thanks for the reassurance that I (probably) haven't bought an engine that is too small!
MrJemm. Thanks for the reassurance that I (probably) haven't bought an engine that is too small!
30boat
N/A
My Westerly Fulmar is fitted with a Beta 20.It's perfectly adequate.Make sure you get a good prop though.my folding Radice is not and I'm contemplating going back to the fixed two blader.
Tranona
Well-known member
It is not the length of the boat that is the only determinant, weight is also key - and the Rival 32 is nearly one ton heavier than the Westerly Fulmar. A 20 hp engine will probably give hull speed but with little in reserve to punch into heavy seas. Normally it is not sensible to significantly overpower a displacement yacht, but in this case 20 is adequate but low. My Bavari 37 which weighs about 1/2 ton more than the Rival has 29hp which is just right.
There was a time when engine sizes tended to jump in 10hp increments - and some ranges still do this, but the Kubota based engines (Beta and Nanni) allow a much closer match of engine to boat.
Signed Out
Active member
Mine was a Nanni. But although I cannot remember her displacement, I rather doubt she was lighter than the OP's. As for your 37' Bav against his 32' Rival, surely your's will face more resistance into heavy weather, with 1) being heavier, 2) Being beamier and realted to that, 3) possibly more "blunt".
But, my lessons in small craft design and such were several years ago now, and only rely on my limited experience to discuss this, so will bow to other before I drop myself in it!
But, my lessons in small craft design and such were several years ago now, and only rely on my limited experience to discuss this, so will bow to other before I drop myself in it!
Tranona
Well-known member
You are right - but I have 50% more hp than with the proposed engine in the Rival - put another way he will be pushing 90% of the weight with only 67% of the power. Waterline length is less so max speed will inevitably be a bit less and 20hp will achieve that in flat water. The loss will be in motoring in adverse conditions.
Boats of the type and era of the Rival were often underpowered, partly because motoring performance was considered less important and partly because higher powered engines were physically larger and heavier. Those constraints no longer apply - new engines are smaller and lighter and most people appreciate the better performance they provide.
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pathfinder
Member
Replaced a md11c with a beta 28 and didn't bother with the modified mountings.The distance between the feet across the engine were the same.I had to raise new engine by 12mm did this with 2x10mm flat bar and 2mm shims.The flat bar ran full length along top of each engine bearer and attached using the original holes for the md11c feet.This allowed me to drill and tap the bar for the beta mountings.That was almost 4 yrs ago no problems since (except for seawater pump).
Tranona
Well-known member
However, the 20 and 25 have narrower spacing at 370mm between centres compared with 410mm on the 28. So depends on how wide the bearers are.
alisdair4
Member
Detail of engine mountings
That is exactly the sort of info I need, so thank you! I have emailed Beta to see what they say in respect of the adapter brackets.
That is exactly the sort of info I need, so thank you! I have emailed Beta to see what they say in respect of the adapter brackets.
alisdair4
Member
Unfortunately I don't know, and the boat is 500km away.
SHUG
Active member
"NEVER MAKE A DECISION UNTIL YOU HAVE CHOICE"
Until you have another like for like quote you are up in the air....as they say!!
Until you have another like for like quote you are up in the air....as they say!!
mdonnelly
Member
After a rebuild she ran well for over 6months and then head gasket went. Replaced and went again 1 week later. Overheating was the general view although not clear why. Head warped and as previously skimmed at least twice decided enough was enough. Beta saildrive package costing around £8k, including optional larger alternator, waterproof panel, oil pressure and temp gauges, folding prop, installation and cost of lifting out, hard standing and relaunch.
This is part of my reply from a previous post
This is part of my reply from a previous post
exfinnsailor
New member
Everything in Germany is expensive.The products we buy are expensive but they work and last in some very harsh conditions. Some have not been switched off for over 5yrs
The cost of living is high and so are the BEER prices. Not the best place to get a new engine fitted unless you want perfection that is.
The cost of living is high and so are the BEER prices. Not the best place to get a new engine fitted unless you want perfection that is.
Barry Jones
New member
I would make a comparison of rates in Germany and the UK.
Germany and Scandinavia tend to have some of the highest labour rates in Europe.
Germany and Scandinavia tend to have some of the highest labour rates in Europe.
alisdair4
Member
Thanks to a PM from another Forumite, I am well on the way to that second quote..!