Am i being ripped off in germany?

[alisdair4]

I have just had the quote for fitting a new Beta 20HP into my Rival 32 by a German yard in Kiel. The quote was fairly eye-watering (€8500) but when I read it in detail seemed to be very comprehensive, including changing skin fittings for the water inlet, replacing just about everything which could be replaced, including in particular; fabricating new engine mountings from S/S. The replacement of all hoses, and associated skin fittings, makes sense, particularly as they are the age of the boat (25 years) with the exception of part of the exhaust which i replaced in 2007. The pipes are all of different sizes, too.

My concern is that replacing the engine mountings may be gilding the lily somewhat - but I don't know enough to say definitively. The old engine was an MD11c - which I believe was a fairly standard fit for this type of boat. Does anybody else have any experience of this sort of upgrade, and if so, can you answer the headline question?

On a separate but related issue, if I am going to replace the prop, is it worth bothering with a folding versus a fixed? The current one is fixed about 14 inches (I think).

 

[Ammonite]

I must admit I haven't looked into this in detail but when I contacted my local Beta dealer in Hampshire to give me a rough idea of replacing the engine in Nic 31 with Beta 20hp he suggested I budget £8000 (to include new exhaust, mounts etc etc etc)

 

[sailorman]

I have just had the quote for fitting a new Beta 20HP into my Rival 32 by a German yard in Kiel. The quote was fairly eye-watering (€8500) but when I read it in detail seemed to be very comprehensive, including changing skin fittings for the water inlet, replacing just about everything which could be replaced, including in particular; fabricating new engine mountings from S/S. The replacement of all hoses, and associated skin fittings, makes sense, particularly as they are the age of the boat (25 years) with the exception of part of the exhaust which i replaced in 2007. The pipes are all of different sizes, too.

My concern is that replacing the engine mountings may be gilding the lily somewhat - but I don't know enough to say definitively. The old engine was an MD11c - which I believe was a fairly standard fit for this type of boat. Does anybody else have any experience of this sort of upgrade, and if so, can you answer the headline question?

On a separate but related issue, if I am going to replace the prop, is it worth bothering with a folding versus a fixed? The current one is fixed about 14 inches (I think).

Beta will provide bracketing to allow a straight fit to existing beds

 

[alisdair4]

Fitting costs

I must admit I haven't looked into this in detail but when I contacted my local Beta dealer in Hampshire to give me a rough idea of replacing the engine in Nic 31 with Beta 20hp he suggested I budget £8000 (to include new exhaust, mounts etc etc etc)

Chaktoura, just to be clear, I am talking about the €8500 over and above the engine.

 

[daveyw]

Chaktoura, just to be clear, I am talking about the €8500 over and above the engine.

I trust they are going to gold plate everthing and provide a liftime guarantee!

 

[Ammonite]

Ah, in that case I think you now know the answer to your original question ;-)

 

[little shack]

That does seem like a lot of money.How much for the engine?have they given you a price for labour on everything as a part of the total bill.

 

[Leighb]

I paid about £2600 for the fitting of a Beta 20 in place of a Volvo MD7A, that did not include the cost of the prop, it did include fabricating new engine beds, new shaft, shaft seal, control cables, exhaust, electric fuel pump, etc,

The engine was about £5500 as far as I can recall, I can't find the invoice.

So total cost including engine of about what you are being charged for just the fitting.

 

[alisdair4]

Labour costs

They haven't yet broken it down into Labour vs parts, but reckoned that there were two weeks work in the job (say 78 hours). A lot of this would appear to be fabricating the new engine mountings - which, as I said, seems OTT!

 

[Vara]

Replacing my Volvo 2003 with a Beta seems to come in at about £8/9000 for a full fitted replacement, this would be reduced if I stripped out all the old bits myself.

Strangely enough since I lodged the quotes in the chart-table the Volvo has performed impeccably.(touch wood).

Sounds as if it would be cheaper to bring the boat back to UK.

 

[alisdair4]

Bring boat back to uk!

It took long enough to get the damned thing here! To compound the problem, I am currently in the middle of Germany, and there is no scope for self-help (otherwise I would at least have a go at getting the old motor out!)

 

[Bosun Higgs]

On a separate but related issue, if I am going to replace the prop, is it worth bothering with a folding versus a fixed? The current one is fixed about 14 inches (I think).

It would be a bit like fitting a 6 inch exhaust to a Clio. Yes it will improve sailing performance by maybe half a knot, but you are clearly not so interested in speed or you would not have bought the boat you have. So why bother?

 

[BrianH]

I have my recently supplied Italian quote before me now, for replacing my Volvo Penta MD17C with a Nanni 4.38. It includes all new parts, including shaft and propeller and includes 20 days labour but not the crane for lift-out/in and hard standing cost that will be invoked by the yard.

Not including the engine price (too close to list for my satisfaction) the estimate, in very complete detail, totals €4110 (euros). I would expect Italy to be cheaper than Germany but not by ca. 100%, especially as components for a larger engine than yours could be more expensive - it even includes water-cooling skin fittings as the originals, although in perfect condition, need to have a larger bore.

 

[Tranona]

Couple of observations. First that price is far too high. Beta will supply engine bracketry to go straight onto the beds - IIRC about £260. Labour is around 25 - 30 hours to remove old engine and replace. You do need new mounts as the spacing is different from the Volvo. You will also probably need a new prop to match the new engine and box. Beta will recommend a size. Suggest a new shaft seal such as a Volvo and probably a new shaft and cutless bearing as chances are they will be worn.

20hp is on the small side for the boat - a 25 would be better - physically slightly longer (but still smaller than the Volvo) and very little more money. Installation costs the same. Either way, worth specifying the larger alternator.

 

[Downsman]

If it helps..I've just had an old Ford Watermota 30hp replaced with a Yanmar 3YM 30hp. Obviously because of the physical size difference (the old Ford was fairly hefty) I've also had a new shaft/coupling. ( not prop) A few extras were, replace two cockpit drain cocks, new engine/gear control lever and cables, new flexible exhaust section and the new engine mounts made of thick mild steel and the whole glassed in and flow coated to a very pleasing standard. £5000+ engine and £3800 for parts and labour, about 90 odd hours involving a lot of cutting out of original grp supports and rebuilding new.
An excellent job by an old fashioned Black Country time served fitter and a younger fibre glassing wizzo. English yard, not marina...

 

[Seajet]

Here's how to reply to that quote ;

 

[stav]

I have no idea about engine costs but would not consider spending half the value on the boat re-engining unless I expected to wear it out! I do not agree with BH though I have fitted an autoprop to a 9T hillyard and my last boat a nic 36 had a variprop. The Conway I have just bought would cost £2k for a variprop and I simply cannot afford that but am looking at a kiwi prop. I have found on the heavier boats they benefit from a feathering prop in light winds and you can start sailing sooner. Also seems to make them slightly more handy.

Good luck with it all.

 

[alisdair4]

Tranona,

Thanks for the heads-up on the engine brackets, I will get onto Beta on Monday. As the engine is already en-route (ordered in August), I am afraid it will just have to be slightly too small!

 

[earlybird]

My boat was re-engined with a Beta from the original Volvo by previous owners. The Beta has non standard mounting dimensions, but the beds still had to be modified, so Beta might not be able to supply a "drop-in" unit as they seem to claim, but no harm in asking.

 

[GrahamM376]

I have my recently supplied Italian quote before me now, for replacing my Volvo Penta MD17C with a Nanni 4.38. It includes all new parts, including shaft and propeller and includes 20 days labour

How on earth can anyone need 20 days? I changed our engine,gearbox,shaft & prop + new instrument panel and loom and it took me a total of 4 days, including having to remove and refit the cockpit floor, steering pedestal etc. Most manufacturers will supply engines with mounts to fit existing holes. These prices are typical "marine" rip-off.