rib
Well-known member
Old deck lasted nearly 40 years no leaks
Alternatives to deak for decking?
- Thread starter Ian_Edwards
- Start date
Tranona
Well-known member
If anybody is still interested in teak decking I dug out some photos of the deck I laid on my Eventide while looking for an example of a hatch garage in response to another thread.
The teak is approx 4mm thick old growth Burma teak I bought already cut as a job lot 10 years ago. It had been cut from a log that the vendor had bought 25 years or more earlier. Lovely stuff. Straight laid on Saba adhesive. Took me a whole summer and more to lay. I did it partly because the teak was cheap and partly because there were patches of rot in the ply deck that were difficult to repair and look good under paint. The cockpit was also teak veneers on epoxy laid over a Christmas holiday sometime in the early 90s. The photos are 2019, 5 years after the deck was finished and following a good clean.
The teak is approx 4mm thick old growth Burma teak I bought already cut as a job lot 10 years ago. It had been cut from a log that the vendor had bought 25 years or more earlier. Lovely stuff. Straight laid on Saba adhesive. Took me a whole summer and more to lay. I did it partly because the teak was cheap and partly because there were patches of rot in the ply deck that were difficult to repair and look good under paint. The cockpit was also teak veneers on epoxy laid over a Christmas holiday sometime in the early 90s. The photos are 2019, 5 years after the deck was finished and following a good clean.
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Ian_Edwards
Well-known member
Update:
The boat is now out of the water, rig out and undercover.
I got quote from Boatcraft, to replace the deck with a synthetic alternative. The quote includes stripping the old teak deck off and laying the new, but doesn't include any repairs that might be needed to the underlying deck.
The deck is effectively a side deck, about 350mm wide and 13.5m long, plus a small triangle of teak at the bow.
There are 3 filler caps on the port side, and 1 on the starboard side, both sides have a circulation plate for the inner shroud.
Triangular foredeck has an anchor locker hatch.
The quote is for £15,260 plus Vat.
This seem high to me, but I have no alternatives to compare it with.
Is anyone with real experience of replacing a teak deck willing to comment?
The best photo I could find just now, a narrow side deck.
The boat is now out of the water, rig out and undercover.
I got quote from Boatcraft, to replace the deck with a synthetic alternative. The quote includes stripping the old teak deck off and laying the new, but doesn't include any repairs that might be needed to the underlying deck.
The deck is effectively a side deck, about 350mm wide and 13.5m long, plus a small triangle of teak at the bow.
There are 3 filler caps on the port side, and 1 on the starboard side, both sides have a circulation plate for the inner shroud.
Triangular foredeck has an anchor locker hatch.
The quote is for £15,260 plus Vat.
This seem high to me, but I have no alternatives to compare it with.
Is anyone with real experience of replacing a teak deck willing to comment?
The best photo I could find just now, a narrow side deck.
Koeketiene
Well-known member
I did this (on a previous boat) in 2009-2010.
Price then was somewhat similar - though our boat had a flush deck, so there was a lot more 'teak' involved. (see picture #43)
The BIG unknown here is 'it doesn't include any repairs that might be needed to the underlying deck'.
This is a leap in the dark. Best case scenario: little or no extra cost - worst case scenario: ... you don't want to go there...
Price then was somewhat similar - though our boat had a flush deck, so there was a lot more 'teak' involved. (see picture #43)
The BIG unknown here is 'it doesn't include any repairs that might be needed to the underlying deck'.
This is a leap in the dark. Best case scenario: little or no extra cost - worst case scenario: ... you don't want to go there...
38mess
Well-known member
I only have a limited experience of teak decks as I had a cockpit seat area with teak decking on my moody, and the ply below rotted out. I replaced the whole thing reusing the old teak. It looked good but it was a hell of a job and it took the best part of the summer as I didn't realise the amount of work involved. Everything underneath needed replacing.
This is why I worry about your quote. Depending on what repairs are needed the final bill could easily double.
Rappey
Well-known member
As Buck Turgidson asked, can it be regrooved and recaulked ?
How thick is the remaining teak ?
I recently recaulked a friends teak which is glued down. His teak is barely 8mm thick and some of the grooves were nearly non existent.
The wood looked rough as it was very unloved and weathered. I sanded as little as possible to reveal fresh wood either side of the groove.
I used a Stanley knife and groove sized chisel to deepen the groove in a few places.
I used tds sis 440 caulking. Was lovely to apply ,easy to manipulate/tool and easy to sand. No primer ..
Putting the non stick tape at the bottom of each groove was incredibley fiddly.
In the picture below-
The bottom panel had all the ages taped and a spatula pulled over the caulk. Just lightly sanded to see how well the caulk filled the grooves.
Middle panel has been sanded back, little more to do but then got wet .
Top panel had caulk squirted freehand and left to dry. ( was trying to minimise the amount of £34/tube caulk used and the amount of sanding needed.)
Taping caulk seams is a waste of time unless your doing a repair ?
It was certainly worth doing and will be interesting to see how long the caulk and teak stay looking "new"
How thick is the remaining teak ?
I recently recaulked a friends teak which is glued down. His teak is barely 8mm thick and some of the grooves were nearly non existent.
The wood looked rough as it was very unloved and weathered. I sanded as little as possible to reveal fresh wood either side of the groove.
I used a Stanley knife and groove sized chisel to deepen the groove in a few places.
I used tds sis 440 caulking. Was lovely to apply ,easy to manipulate/tool and easy to sand. No primer ..
Putting the non stick tape at the bottom of each groove was incredibley fiddly.
In the picture below-
The bottom panel had all the ages taped and a spatula pulled over the caulk. Just lightly sanded to see how well the caulk filled the grooves.
Middle panel has been sanded back, little more to do but then got wet .
Top panel had caulk squirted freehand and left to dry. ( was trying to minimise the amount of £34/tube caulk used and the amount of sanding needed.)
Taping caulk seams is a waste of time unless your doing a repair ?
It was certainly worth doing and will be interesting to see how long the caulk and teak stay looking "new"
Attachments
Ian_Edwards
Well-known member
It's not the the condition of the teak deck, or the "pretend caulking" that's the problem, the teak deck is in relatively good condition, for it's age.
The problem is that the deck leaks, almost all the leaks come from the joint between the caulking and the bulwark.
perhaps this sketch will help.
The bond between the hull and deck has failed in several places.
The deck was bonded to the hull flange with some sort of ridged sealant, with 16 years of sailing and the hull and deck flexing, the sealant has gone brittle and is allowing water to seep through.
It' not possible to seal the joint from the inside, without taking all the furniture out of the boat, it's all hidden behind paneling, and even if you could get the paneling off, the space between the foam core and the subdeck is very tight. I really struggled to access the studs and nuts on the stanchions, when I re-bedded the stanchions (which was my first attempt to cure the leaks).
I've tried chiseling out the caulking but that was very difficult to do, there's some very hard resin under the caulking, which chipped the steel off the end of the chisel. It's also very hard to make neat job of chiseling out the caulking, because the bulwark is curved, you can't just chisel vertically down, as if you where cutting a mortis. I also tried drilling out the bulk of the caulking, but the drill bit wandered when it hit the hard resin.
I gave up, fearing I was going to make a real mess of it, and made good the 400mm or so I'd hacked with black CT1.
I've thought of trying to use a router, but the cutter would have to extend along way below the base of the router, and I'm unconvinced that I could hold it steady enough, to avoid making amess of the either the teak or the bulwark (which is about 40mm tall from the teak).
I'm thinking that I may go back to hand chiseling, looking at bill perhaps £20k, I can afford to spend quite lot of my time on my hand and knees, carefully chiseling out the groves to make good the joint.
The simple, and perhaps naïve, solution seemed to be replace the whole deck, which would allow the subdeck to be sealed with epoxy glass. That would cure the problem for good.
The problem is that the deck leaks, almost all the leaks come from the joint between the caulking and the bulwark.
perhaps this sketch will help.
The bond between the hull and deck has failed in several places.
The deck was bonded to the hull flange with some sort of ridged sealant, with 16 years of sailing and the hull and deck flexing, the sealant has gone brittle and is allowing water to seep through.
It' not possible to seal the joint from the inside, without taking all the furniture out of the boat, it's all hidden behind paneling, and even if you could get the paneling off, the space between the foam core and the subdeck is very tight. I really struggled to access the studs and nuts on the stanchions, when I re-bedded the stanchions (which was my first attempt to cure the leaks).
I've tried chiseling out the caulking but that was very difficult to do, there's some very hard resin under the caulking, which chipped the steel off the end of the chisel. It's also very hard to make neat job of chiseling out the caulking, because the bulwark is curved, you can't just chisel vertically down, as if you where cutting a mortis. I also tried drilling out the bulk of the caulking, but the drill bit wandered when it hit the hard resin.
I gave up, fearing I was going to make a real mess of it, and made good the 400mm or so I'd hacked with black CT1.
I've thought of trying to use a router, but the cutter would have to extend along way below the base of the router, and I'm unconvinced that I could hold it steady enough, to avoid making amess of the either the teak or the bulwark (which is about 40mm tall from the teak).
I'm thinking that I may go back to hand chiseling, looking at bill perhaps £20k, I can afford to spend quite lot of my time on my hand and knees, carefully chiseling out the groves to make good the joint.
The simple, and perhaps naïve, solution seemed to be replace the whole deck, which would allow the subdeck to be sealed with epoxy glass. That would cure the problem for good.
Tim Good
Well-known member
A potential option is what we have. It’s epoxy with sand. It’s been done with black stripes to make it look like a wooden deck. Ok it’s no real but it’s now nearly 30 years old and still holding up.
When it was professionally done it was called Overdeck by a small company from Germany. I still have some documentation about it. Not sure why it didn’t take off as it seems like a decent solution and doesn’t get hot.
When it was professionally done it was called Overdeck by a small company from Germany. I still have some documentation about it. Not sure why it didn’t take off as it seems like a decent solution and doesn’t get hot.
BabaYaga
Well-known member
Have you considered chiseling out and replacing the most outboard teak plank only?
Seems that could create space to make good the leaks between hull flange and subdeck, then replace with new teak?
B27
Well-known member
If that hull/deck joint is failing, the teak layer or whatever you replace it with is a bit of a detail.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Rout out the edge seam fill with flexible stuff…..maybe a pro can do the routing or set up a guide
Ian_Edwards
Well-known member
Do you really think I could make a router work?
The inside edge of the bulwark could act as reference/guide with a block of wood the same height as the bulwark to keep the router level, but the distance from the top of the bulwark to the teak is at least 35mm plus 6mm or more for the teak. That's a long shank for a 1/4" router bit.
If that could be made to work it would be ideal, but as you can tell I'm sceptical.
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
You could cut the groove between the bulwark with a circular saw on a block fixed to the ple of the circular saw with the save ser to the required depth
The width of the groove can be adjusted with a wobble washer on the saw blade
Tips & Tricks Issue 94: Wobble-Widening a Dado
The width of the groove can be adjusted with a wobble washer on the saw blade
Tips & Tricks Issue 94: Wobble-Widening a Dado
Wansworth
Well-known member
Yes,just an idea ,from a distance it’s,just that an idea,but a router with a guide maybe away ,what about a guide fixed to the actual decking?
Ian_Edwards
Well-known member
You can't us a circular saw, the bulwark is curved. You finish up with a very big gap, and scared bulwark.
And
You can't get a router close enough at deck level. The base plate is too big, and one side would have to be curved.
I'm currently looking at a power chisel, something like a Arbortech Power Chisel and a 6mm flat blade, to carefully carve out the mastic. From the promotion video they look very controllable. Expensive for a one off job, but not compared to £20k bill.
And
You can't get a router close enough at deck level. The base plate is too big, and one side would have to be curved.
I'm currently looking at a power chisel, something like a Arbortech Power Chisel and a 6mm flat blade, to carefully carve out the mastic. From the promotion video they look very controllable. Expensive for a one off job, but not compared to £20k bill.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Lateral thinking will save the day..
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
You need a bigger router and there are long bearing guided router bits that would do the job
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
Make a jig that uses the outside of the bulwark as a reference
B27
Well-known member
I think your chances of fixing that by routing out some caulk and re-caulking are the wrong side of zero.
Hull/deck join failure is a serious issue.
If it really looks like your sketch, then failure at one point is increasing the stress elsewhere.
That turned-over 'bulkwark' looks like one of those moulding details where what happens on the factory floor is highly likely to deviate from the drawings.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Dependan e on glues to hold a deck to hull jointprobably was the wrong choice although it seems glueing stuff is accepted practice,recent thread about glued windows.Going to removing more of the teak decking and some mechanical fastening of the deck to the hull is opening up a big can of worms.