Advice please...

[Greg2]

I currently have a Princess 32 and have been considering various options for something bigger for some time.

I have always liked (and can only afford) older boats and whilst I would love an old wooden boat I have always been put off by the prospect of lots of maintenance instead of enjoying using the boat with the family. Having chatted with the owner of a Rampart 48 and seen some very nice wooden boats at favourable prices I am wondering whether I should consider one.

I know very little about wooden boats so would appreciate some guidance (I am looking for a motor cruiser, my intended use is mainly river with some sea cruising and as I lack the skills or the time to restore a vessel would be looking for something in good condition):

1. I assume that hardwood is best - is there any difference between teak, mahogany, iroko etc? Is any type more suited to salt or fresh water?
2. What can I expect on the maintenance front? Is it a rub down and varnish every year? How often does a hardwood hull need to be painted?
3. Should they be lifted out for the winter or are they best kept in the water?
4. Any suggestions on type/makes/builders?
5. Anything else you think I should know...

Thanks in anticipation.

Greg


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[Peterduck]

Do a lot of reading - you can never do too much! Start with "Surveying & Restoring Classic Boats" by Jon Winters. This nwill give you a grounding in what to look for [and why] when you come to look at buying a boat. The business of maintenance has been grossly overstated by the glassfibre promoters to serve their own ends. Varnished surfaces take a fair bit of work each year, but there are other finishes which last a lot longer [see a recent posting on this board]. Hardwood is not necessarily best; in Australia the best timber available [superior to teak] to us is Huon Pine. Pitch Pine and Larch are very good northern hemisphere timbers. Framing, however is best in a hardwood, usually oak. Fresh water should be kept on the outside of the boat, so if you are poerating in fresh water, make sure that the electric bilge pump is working well. Whether you keep your boat in the water through winter depends on your winters; here in Melbourne we sail all year round. A fine day in winter gives some of the best sailing available. Do what ever is done locally. Everyone will give you a different answer as to the best builder. Ask a really knowledgeable broker like Peter Gregson. As to what else you should know, I could go on forever! The more you read, study, learn the better armed you will be. It is an ongoing process - it doesn't stop.
Peter.

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[muchy_]

I have heard that it is fresh water that will rot your timbers, so if your moored in fresh water put those salt tab things for dishwashers in the bilge to keep it salty and it should preserve the timbers a lot longer.

Could be a load of bo**ocks though ;-)

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[Stuart_Wyatt]

My wife and I have owned a Laurent Giles Wanderer class for two years, and our experience might be helpful. Our boat was built in '65 of all teak and is in good condition. However, since buying her we've hada lot of maintenance to catch up on. New transom fitted, recaulking the decks, replacing rusty fastenings in the hull, etc, etc. Our experience so far is an investment of over one thousand hours and we can forsee several hundred more before we reach the purely maintenance work at about eighty hours per year. If you're not too put off by this let me say we love our boat and we plan to keep her for at least ten years. No more GRP for us! We're talking real boats here.

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[Stuart_Wyatt]

And another thought. Our best investment in buying our wooden boat was employing the right surveyor. You want to look for one that is an ex wooden boatbuilder or designer of yard manager plus has personal experience of restoring wooden boats. Not easy to find, but worth the search.

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[Mirelle]

A pair of "names to conjure with" in older motor cruisers are John Bain, designer, and James Silver of Rosneath, builder. Look out for "Silvers" in brokerage adverts and go and look at a few. These were the Fifes (in sailing yacht terms) - we might say the vintage Bentleys - of pre-and immediately-post WW2 and are beautiful boats, well suited to either inland or seagoing use.

You may not buy one, but it is nice to see what a really good wooden motor yacht can be like.

Look at Ramparts and at the Dagless Fleur de Lys boats.

Look out also for motor boats by Dickies and by Camper and Nicholson.

Try to avoid mahogany planking - teak is best, and indicates a high specification originally. Iroko is a good alternative, used post WW2, and pitch pine is the best softwood - larch is OK, usually.

I am a sailing boat type but I have been very impressed with some of the beautiful wooden displacement motor boats about. We had a friend, now dead, who called his 40ft Silver his "French country cottage" because he would spend his summers aboard her in the French inland waterways and the Med and return here in the autumn.

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[Mirelle]

Just thought of another "name to conjure with" - Fred. Parker was an outstanding post-WW2 designer of wooden displacement motor boats.

Don't worry unduly about maintenance - but as has been said be very sure to get a good surveyor, who knows wood construction properly and who knows what he is about. With that proviso, I really doubt if there is a huge difference in the amount of maintenance.

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[Greg2]

Thanks all...I'll continue the research!

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[rednecker]

Best thing i ever read, After I bought a timber Boat, was in a paperback book called 'sailing" by Peter Heaton " There are always lots of boats for sale and Many of them quite useless" 'Assume every Boat is rotten untill you are compleatly proven wrong" What it means is that Get a competent surveyor to look at the boat , NOT A Designer, Who has never worked on a boat, Use A BOAT BUILDER Who Is expirienced in reparing and building timber boats. I Made this Mistake and have paid dearly for it, the surveyor came with all the bits of paper, yet didn't see that the Whole top plank was rotten{ Both sides hiden under coaming} the stringers were rotten and freshley painted over, The work maintaining a timber boat is a hobby within its self.... If you wont enjoy the work you had better have deep pockets to pay someone to do it.


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[rich]

We own a 32ft Fox's Revelry mark 2, built in 1963, which looks a bit like a Rampart only nicer lines! there is no more maintenace involved than on our previous Fairline, but it's far nicer painting and varnishing a wooden boat than polishing a fibreglass one. The whole cruising experience feels and smells better, and no knocking noises of waves against the hull when at anchor.
Yes you do need to be able to do most of the work yourself, with the advice of a good boatyard if necessary, but that's part of the fun. Unfortunately we are thinking of selling her, due to work commitments, if you're interested!

<hr width=100% size=1>rich ) <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.jersey-harbours.com>http://www.jersey-harbours.com</A>

 

[ccscott49]

My God! We agree! Except the Fluer de lys, built rather down to a price, most with plywood superstuctures, which "wicked" and rotted out at an amazing speed! Englander is a John Bain.

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[ccscott49]

Huon pine? Superior to teak? Now you are going to have to prove that to me, whats it's durability rating and what is it, some kind of cedar? Please.

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