Advice for equipping my (sail)boat for living aboard UK/Med...

[V1701]

Hi everyone,
I've just got my first (sail)boat, Jeanneau Sundream 28 (1989), and planning to finish off equipping her for living aboard from next Spring, 1 or 2 people, firstly in UK waters then Mediterranean, initially spending some time in marinas, but intend before long to spend very little time (hence money) in them. Most of the time will be in warm/hot climates. I'm used to (and more importantly don't mind) living in relatively basic conditions, enjoy living simply, will have to live quite cheaply, just spent 3 years in Carib/SE Asia. I'm looking for any tips/advice and have listed below the existing spec/equipment, followed by what I plan to add, then a few further thoughts at the end. Is there anything glaring that I have missed? Anything you have found really useful to have? Anything at all really? All advice/comments welcome...

Existing spec/equipment:

Yanmar 2GM20 diesel (1989) engine, serviced w. new injectors, tools & spares)
2 x main (1 new, 1 2006)
1 x genoa (2006)
Standing rigging (2006)
1 x stormsail (new)
Whisker pole
1 x CQR anchor w. chain/warp (2009)
1 x Rutland 913 wind generator (2009)
Eberspacher warm air heating (2009)
Compass + spare (hand held)
VHF DSC (2009)
GPS/chart plotter (2009)
Spare GPS
Spray hood
Fenders
2 x ST2000 tiller pilots
Cooker (gas, 2 burner w. grill, no oven)
100 litre water tank (flexible, under port settee)
25 litre fuel tank (stainless, located in starb'd cockpit locker)
Shore power
Laptop (for work/navigation/watching the odd DVD)

What I plan to add:

Tender/outboard.
Bimini top (or maybe even a full cockpit tent/bimini combined if that's possible. Does anyone know how much that would likely cost? I'm guessing over a grand so cost may be prohibitive).
Another 100 litre flexi water tank under starb'd settee, this could feed the heads/shower leaving the other to feed galley/sink.
Cockpit shower (or just put a longer hose on the one in the heads compartment (which is starb'd behind nav. stn.) & pull it through the hatch to the cockpit when needed?).
Solar panel (what size, where to fit?), I want to have enough electricity for lights, laptop, charging mobile phone & CD/Radio.
Porta potti (obviates need for holding tank, will store it & use when necessary, otherwise use the sea toilet).
At least 1 more anchor, probably 2? (type/size not really sure)
Good quality pressure cooker (apparently you can even make bread in them!)
CD/Radio

Further thoughts:

Would it be worth fitting a foot pump for sea water at the galley sink? (Don't really like the idea of having another hole in the hull).
Aft cabin (double & where I'll sleep) is in the process of being relined, should I insulate it with cork or something before doing this? (Especially as doesn't have heating & to keep it cooler in hot weather).
Forecabin will usually be used for storage – porta potti, lots of scuba gear (I teach diving), sails, clothes, food, tender when on passage, etc., etc.
Think I've more or less decided against converting the icebox to a fridge, too much electricity required, not prepared to run the engine to have a fridge.
Need to get an ICC!

Especially welcome as well are tips on the domestic side, like storing food etc, etc.

Many thanks, sorry it's so long but I figured the more info I give the more useful/relevant any replies would likely be, but feel free to ask any questions...

David.

 

[Baggins.]

Sounds pretty homey already, one suggestions is to fit netting to the roof as the extra storage space in invaluable especially when you intend to spend alot of time out of marinas, it's very easy when living aboard to get messy quickly so easy storage helps alot.

0.02p

 

[TerryMac]

First of all congratulations on becoming a boat owner! I hope you get many years of pleasure from her. We are also new to boat ownership after having bought our boat a year ago. We moved on board in Feb in the UK and are now in Greece.

I think you are on the right track but here are a few of our opinions / ideas / suggestions albeit with our limited experience.

I wouldn't bother fitting a sea water tap if you just plan on cruising in the UK / Med. Fresh water is never far away and even though we have spent weeks at anchor we have just popped into the local marina and topped up. Sometimes we have had to pay a small charge (the most we ever paid was 5 Euro's for 400 litres).

Purpose built / bespoke bimini tops are expensive. Why not get a boom tent made up? You can tailor it to your specific design (rain water catcher?) and it needn't be too elaborate. We are having one made up as we speak - cost 200 Euro's. I dare say that you could even make one yourself for less.

25 litres of fuel is not much so you aren't going to be able to rely on using your engine to charge the batteries. An alternative method of charging your batteries will be required. I have no experience of wind generators but am currently in the process of fitting some solar panels. You will need to tot up your expected daily consumption and work out the size of solar panels required. What about changing lights to LEDs? Get a 12v laptop charger (as oppose to an inverter). Fit a fresh water hand pump. There are many ways of reducing power consumption.

Whilst I have no experience of tiller pilots we have experienced a few problems with our rotary drive electronic autopilot. As we sail 2 up some form of self steering is essential for longer passages. We also have a hydrovane fitted and it has been a godsend when the electronic autopliot has failed. That said - if you have 2 tiller pilots then you have good redundancy - but will it steer the boat in heavy seas / winds?

Have you a windlass fitted? Probably get away with it on a 28 ft boat but ours packed in this summer and having to haul a 45lb CQR and 40 metres of chain was hard work.

Apart from that take lots of tea bags, nappy sacks and Nigel Calders' "Boatowners' Mechanical & Electrical Manual"!

Most of all - don't let the jobs, equipment get in the way of sailing off into the sunset. If the boat is sound then go for it! Good luck!

Feel free to PM me ;-)

 

[pragmatist]

Hi everyone,
Bimini top (or maybe even a full cockpit tent/bimini combined if that's possible. Does anyone know how much that would likely cost? I'm guessing over a grand so cost may be prohibitive).
Cockpit shower (or just put a longer hose on the one in the heads compartment (which is starb'd behind nav. stn.) & pull it through the hatch to the cockpit when needed?).
Solar panel (what size, where to fit?), I want to have enough electricity for lights, laptop, charging mobile phone & CD/Radio.
Especially welcome as well are tips on the domestic side, like storing food etc, etc.

David.

David

Not possible to answer all of this but these items spring to mind. Just suggestions :

Bimini - great and full cockpit enclosure marvellous - BUT expensive. If you are really going to hot climes would suggest a canvas awning including covering the main part of the boat - start at the mast and work back, maybe velcro the cockpit bit to the forward part - even in the UK we keep meaning to supplement our bimini with this - one of this winter's jobs and no reason why you couldn't make it yourself with an old fashioned hand sewing machine (e.g. ancient Singer). The older machines are much tougher than their modern counterparts unless you go for the professional kit.

Cockpit shower - buy one of those solar bags - place on deck to warm - easy, cheap and doesn't use much water. Also consider (if short of water or sunshine) using a garden pressurised spray such as those used for spraying insecticide - uses hardly any water and a quarter of a kettle of hot added to a couple of litres of cold will give a very good shower.

Solar panels - are wonderful. Calculate your requirements and if you need to refer I'd recommend "The 12 Volt Bible" by Miner Brotherton. Ensure that they can be placed without a shadow as this diminishes their input hugely. Consider the possibility of the flexible ones which can be moved around.

And, oh dear, domestic/food cooling without a fridge - been there, done that and it is very restrictive. Especially if you are going somewhere warm. Even in the UK I have thrown out more slimy lettuces than ... Think about old-fashioned methods such as the net with bottles trailed overboard, wrapping things in wet teatowels where the breeze can catch them and evaporate the water. But if you want to save money you might be better having a fridge, even if you don't run it all the time - with good insulation you could get the temp down and then switch it off.

Good luck !

 

[bryantee]

mods for med living

you will regret not updating the ice box. also you will need to insulate the deck head when you get to the med. solar is the way to go.fans will be a priority as its not feasible to have a/c.Greece gets 40+ in august. and though wind scoops can help .normal wind patterns can only give you relief for 12 hours a day.
biminis are about 250 euro. the local gas tanks are interchangeable with 907. in greece.
dont forget your insurance. as you are under 10 m .no big problems. the first thing the port police in greece will ask . is for insurance (Greek translation) this also applies to Italy., registration and then icc.plus crew list. it pays to have multiple copies of all docs+ plus photos.
your fuel tank is 30% of required capacity. I changed my old 45ltr to 60 + another 50 extra , just to be able to port to port in the ionian.sailing in summer is from midday to 1900 . winter is a different matter. plus the difference between nw an se greece is a whole different equation.
agree get extra anchor and spare. at times you may have to anchor in 15m + its mostly rock.
plus 2x 50 m shore lines as you will have to tie up ashore. good luck. and have a good trip.

 

[Richard10002]

My biggest issue during a summer trip across the med. in 2007 was power when lying at anchor for weeks at a time. might be worth considering a generator and a few cans of petrol as well as your other sources.

Anchoring in the weed and hard sand of the med. was a nightmare with our CQR ..... eventually I only anchored in sand and vowed to get a Rocna or a Manson Supreme for the future. Unfortunately, events have overtaken me, the boat is back in the UK, and I dont foresee a need for a new anchor

Worth boning up on access to wifi and mobile broadband in various countries/locations.

 

[charles_reed]

What I plan to add:

<<Tender/outboard.>> I'd suggest, on boat the size of yours a 2.3 (max) inflatable with inflatable floor and keel - get a 2-stroke OB, cheaper, less noisy, not attitudinally challenged and above all lighter than $-strokes.


<<Bimini top (or maybe even a full cockpit tent/bimini combined if that's possible. Does anyone know how much that would likely cost? I'm guessing over a grand so cost may be prohibitive).>>
Mine, which zips on to the trailing edge of the sprayhood cost €250 from James Capstick in Perpignan - phone +33 0620251810

<<Another 100 litre flexi water tank under starb'd settee, this could feed the heads/shower leaving the other to feed galley/sink.
Cockpit shower (or just put a longer hose on the one in the heads compartment (which is starb'd behind nav. stn.) & pull it through the hatch to the cockpit when needed?).>>

As an alternative (I only have 120 litres of water, I carry 2 x 25l cans. Useful for topping up when you can't get alongside to access a hose.

<<Solar panel (what size, where to fit?), I want to have enough electricity for lights, laptop, charging mobile phone & CD/Radio.>>

It all depends on how long you intend to stay anchored in one place: 1. I'd definitely fit a smart regulator and a bigger alternator than the 35 amp Hitachi you've got at the present.
2. I've got 100 watts of solar panel and that's just adequate for fridge (essential) and lighting. The trouble is the computer which needs about another 200 watts nominal to keep it and the cellular dongle topped up - the Huawei dongle is the snag, it almost exactly doubles the computer battery usage. Use MP3 on the computer or some other HDD system - CD players are awfully thirsty beasts and you'll need to add a lot of solar panel watts to keep it going for any time.


<<Porta potti (obviates need for holding tank, will store it & use when necessary, otherwise use the sea toilet).>>

I've got a 25 litre saddle tank which fits in front of the sea-toilet - you'll find, apart from Turkish marinas, discharge is ignored.

<<At least 1 more anchor, probably 2? (type/size not really sure)>>

if you don't know how to anchor get one of the new anchors like Manson, Spade etc. Personally the CQR, a Delta and a Danforth have proved economical and effective. Don't believe anchor watch - it will set you false alarms 9/10 times.

<<Good quality pressure cooker (apparently you can even make bread in them!)>>

Ideally in stainless and with short handles - the stainless reduces the probability of distortion you get with aluminium and the small handles make it stowable - I've found the Tefal range to be first class if expensive.

<<CD/Radio>>

Talk with Clarion UK - they have a marinised radio which has an USB input. (It's only available direct from them). Junk cds (I've got 488) they deteriorate in marine conditions - go to MP3 on some form of HDD. Takes up less room and even the 160Gb iPod classic will store about 250 cds.

 

[multihullsailor6]

David,

Some more points:

Make sure you provide permanent cross ventilation through the boat - I would suggest one / two dorade-type vents forward (have a look at www.air-onlyventilators.com, you can order direct) and two solar-powered ventilators in your aft cabin to extract the air. I'd go for those with batteries, at least they can still be working in the dark until the noise gets to you and you turn them off!).

And if you have the chance to insulate the aft cabin, go for it - I have 1 inch thick polystyrene on my ceilings and it makes a big difference!

For any opening hatches or portlights either mosquito nets or screens.

A LED-equipped anchor light.

You might want to look in to a water filter fitted your water hose to filter the water before it gets to your tank.

And don't forget the safety equipment for the crew like vests, harnesses with leg / crotchstrap, lifelines / strong harness-attaching points.

Good luck and enjoy, might see you in the sun!

 

[Roaring Girl]

Living aboard UK/Med

Lots of good suggestions above, particularly under-deck insulation, anMP3, solar panels (as many as you can afford and can fit)+ 12v inverter for laptop, pressure cooker, larger fuel capacity, and water in 25l cans for easy refilling and fresh water deck shower.

Also mosquito nets for all hatches, netting for veg (crucial if no fridge) and oars/sail for tender.

 

[lille_bee]

Talking of pressure-cooker:
Does anyone know of a good ovenproof casserole dish/saucepan that has a "lockable" lid, or one that "clips" on and is therefore less likely to allow contents to spill in slightly rougher seas?

 

[dinwood]

One of the best things we fitted before doing what you're planning was fitting a sub-micron water filter to a separate tap. Now we look with pity at averyone lugging bottles of drinking water around! We spent good money on our Aquapure system, but it produces fantastic, mineral-like water, irrespective of how smelly the ordinary stuff in the tank is.
Other than that, lots of solar power (we have 2x 68W semi-rigid ones mounted on the deck) are a must, plus good batteries & minimising amps (LED cabin & anchor lights, keel-cooled fridge , low power PC).

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

Some excellent suggestions already but here is my pennyworth.
28ft is a good start as you will be in the economic sub 10m band when you go into marinas.
I would junk the CQR as they simply don't work in the hard sand and weed of the Med.
You wont need a windlass as your new anchor will be lighter.
If you can have about 70 to 100W of solar power you can have a cooler to chill the beer and keep the battery charged
Long shore lines are useful and a plank to get ashore.
The bimini is essential
You need to keep equipment to a minimum on a 28 foot boat otherwise it becomes really crowded.......keep it simple.
Have a great time

 

[samwise]

Re anchors I would junk the CQR and go for a Delta or perhaps a Spade as bower. An aluminium Fortress I think is the weapon of choice for a second or kedge, but you will find that everyone had their own ideas. The Fortress being so light ( don't let that fool you) is [perfect if you have to dinghy out a second anchor. A windlass is pretty essential if only to control the drop and break out if the anchor goes in deep. We had a manual Lofrans which performed well

When we were in the Med we had one fixed solar panel on the coachroof and a large flexible panel we could plug in and move around. It kept the batteries topped up and allowed us to run the fridge all the time. Talk to Barden about what's available.

If you haven't got a pressure cooker, get one. Saves gas, cooks quick.

You seem to be wanting to take lots of showers, the bag type camping showers are great, but be careful, in the Med heat they can reach boiling point.

Marina prices can be very high, especially in season when you may also have a problem finding a space, so anchoring off is a regular occurrence. In which case, get a good tender. I always regretted not getting a tender with an inflatable keel, it would make long runs to shore in a chop much easier ( and drier).

 

[Tranona]

Most of the obvious have been covered but my observations. You do not say how you are going to get to the Med! the requirements for getting there, particularly round the outside are rather different from living aboard in say Greece. You will certainly need to get used to spartan, cramped living - even for one with all your gear!

No need for a spare mainsail. You will find little opportunity to sail distances so the motor is far more important. You will find your boat is no longer a sprightly coastal cruiser, but a sluggish tub with all the extra weight! Suggest doubling or tripling fixed fuel capacity a priority and improving battery capacity and charging. Fridge is just about essential or you will need to find food almost daily - poor choice and high prices in Greece mostly (just come back so am up to date with prices - 50% or more higher than UK).

You will struggle to get a bimini that you can use underway. There is not the height and boring things like boom, mainsheet and backstays get in the way. An awning is possible or you could mount your Solar panels on a gantry and attach an awning forward from that.

Hope this helps.

 

[V1701]

Thanks for all your replies...

I have lots to do & think about now!
David