Actual Terms and Conditions stipulating Rigging replacement.

[Jon magowan]

As a novice sailor and having just purchased a 10 year old yacht this thread is of great interest to me.
My surveyor recommended replacing the rigging based purely on the 10 year old age. I rang my insurers (GJW) and they said that they had no stipulation about this matter but that the boat needed to be maintained to a good seaworthy condition (or words to that effect).
What I need to know is can I be reasonably confident that none of the standing rigging is likely to fail anytime soon ?
Presumably the very least I can do is to get an inspection from a professional rigger?
My question then is, to what extent can I rely of his assessments, after all, he can’t see what’s going on inside some of the fittings.

 

[doug748]

As a novice sailor and having just purchased a 10 year old yacht this thread is of great interest to me.
My surveyor recommended replacing the rigging based purely on the 10 year old age. I rang my insurers (GJW) and they said that they had no stipulation about this matter but that the boat needed to be maintained to a good seaworthy condition (or words to that effect).
What I need to know is can I be reasonably confident that none of the standing rigging is likely to fail anytime soon ?
Presumably the very least I can do is to get an inspection from a professional rigger?
My question then is, to what extent can I rely of his assessments, after all, he can’t see what’s going on inside some of the fittings.

If the rig is undamaged and properly manufactured it is hugely unlikely to let you down next year. You may like to inspect it yourself and take photos to illustrate things. The sort of defect you are looking for is stranded wire, bent or misaligned fittings or cracks as shown in the previous post.

You may prefer for a rigger to do this but (a lot of folk have been hung up on this) don't expect him to guarantee the thing. What you ask him to do is check those items mentioned above - they are matters of fact on the day. Like an MOT test there is no warranty.

Given inspection and the advice from your insurer, I would rest easy. Personally I don't believe swaged fittings suddenly give way without warning or damage and my view is most rigs are lost due to total neglect of basic care over many years. Looking at some 40 year old boats it's a miracle the masts stay up in flat water.

.

 

[Mudisox]

I check and photograph all my rigging fittings and in addition, the point at which the crosstrees touch the shrouds every time the mast comes down or at least every 2 years. Quite happy, [as is the Insurance Compny] and still using the 25+ year old rigging.
Mind you I am changing the main and spinnaker halyards this year though.

 

[Refueler]

As a novice sailor and having just purchased a 10 year old yacht this thread is of great interest to me.
My surveyor recommended replacing the rigging based purely on the 10 year old age. I rang my insurers (GJW) and they said that they had no stipulation about this matter but that the boat needed to be maintained to a good seaworthy condition (or words to that effect).
What I need to know is can I be reasonably confident that none of the standing rigging is likely to fail anytime soon ?
Presumably the very least I can do is to get an inspection from a professional rigger?
My question then is, to what extent can I rely of his assessments, after all, he can’t see what’s going on inside some of the fittings.

Its a question of YOUR gut feeling really ..... Surveyor was no doubt falling into the common 'save a***' statement .... sorry to be blunt.

My questions :
What boat is it ?
What diameter wire is used for stays ?
Any idea what sort of life boat has had ?
What do you intend to do with the boat ?

An old adage that I lived by as a Seagoing Officer from my first days as Cadet :

If I was thinking I should call the Captain - its already that time !!

It did not matter if I was calling for no reason - I was sure I was 'safe / covered' .... maybe the same applies to your rigging ... if you are asking yourself whether it should be replaced ... ??

 

[Jon magowan]

Thanks Refueler. It’s a Bavaria 33 Cruiser. Almost exactly 10 years old. Generally in excellent condition. Engine has 500 hours on it, so I guess it’s been used but not excessively and certainly not abused. Surveyor was not too critical and generally thought it was a sound boat. His only comment about the standing rigging was the 10 year thing.
As a novice my gut feeling is probably not to be relied upon and I’m thinking that if I keep this boat for 10 years ( which I plan to ) I may as well get the standing rigging changed now rather than a few years down the line.
What do all you salty old sea dogs think ?

 

[geem]

Thanks Refueler. It’s a Bavaria 33 Cruiser. Almost exactly 10 years old. Generally in excellent condition. Engine has 500 hours on it, so I guess it’s been used but not excessively and certainly not abused. Surveyor was not too critical and generally thought it was a sound boat. His only comment about the standing rigging was the 10 year thing.
As a novice my gut feeling is probably not to be relied upon and I’m thinking that if I keep this boat for 10 years ( which I plan to ) I may as well get the standing rigging changed now rather than a few years down the line.
What do all you salty old sea dogs think ?

Try and find a rigger that will work with you to inspect the rig. You will learn how to do it yourself. It really isn't hard. Then make a decision about whether you want to replace the rigging. The boat sounds very lightly used. 500 engine hours is nothing for a 10 year old boat.

 

[Concerto]

Thanks Refueler. It’s a Bavaria 33 Cruiser. Almost exactly 10 years old. Generally in excellent condition. Engine has 500 hours on it, so I guess it’s been used but not excessively and certainly not abused. Surveyor was not too critical and generally thought it was a sound boat. His only comment about the standing rigging was the 10 year thing.
As a novice my gut feeling is probably not to be relied upon and I’m thinking that if I keep this boat for 10 years ( which I plan to ) I may as well get the standing rigging changed now rather than a few years down the line.
What do all you salty old sea dogs think ?

If you are south coast based, then have a word with XW Rigging at Hasler Marina. He will certainly give you a rig check that I would trust.

 

[srm]

As a novice my gut feeling is probably not to be relied upon and I’m thinking that if I keep this boat for 10 years ( which I plan to ) I may as well get the standing rigging changed now rather than a few years down the line.
What do all you salty old sea dogs think ?

When I was a novice sailor no one put an age limit on rigging. I bought a boat that had completed an Atlantic circuit and then spent a few years as a family day sailor. We used the boat and sailed it fairly hard for a few years including some rough weather in the Norwegian Sea. I sold it and the next owner used it for a few years before I lost touch with it. As far as I am aware it had the original standing rigging all this time, though sails and some running rigging got replaced.

However when I bought my current boat the rig was about 15 years old. I thought the forestays too light (I prefer one size up on the rest of the standing rigging as they take a lot of side load). The boat had been lightly used and like you I planned on keeping the boat for a while so changed all the standing rigging myself, mast up with the boat on the hard. That was in 2009 and I am happy to keep using it, but then I did the rigging and inspect it annually (mast steps are a great help).
Also, out here I have third party insurance so accept any financial consequences of my decision.

EDIT: To be fair you also need to consider the design of the rig. My boat is a cutter and perhaps over rigged, in that I am fairly sure that the mast would survive should any one shroud or stay fail and prompt action is taken. A modern sloop on the other hand will almost invariably loose its mast if the forestay fails, and is very vulnerable to the loss of any other wire. As we have seen with a boat motoring back into our marina after loosing the rig in moderate conditions.

 

[Jon magowan]

Thanks everyone. The consensus seems to be, if it ain’t broken don’t fix it ?
My thoughts are that I shall get a professional inspection done and move forward from there. All things being equal, there should be years of life left in the rig. So if I replace the rigging in 5 or 6 years it will increase the resale value of the boat in future.
Can anybody recommend a rigging firm in Plymouth please ?

 

[Refueler]

Thanks everyone. The consensus seems to be, if it ain’t broken don’t fix it ?
My thoughts are that I shall get a professional inspection done and move forward from there. All things being equal, there should be years of life left in the rig. So if I replace the rigging in 5 or 6 years it will increase the resale value of the boat in future.
Can anybody recommend a rigging firm in Plymouth please ?

Sounds good plan.

 

[LittleSister]

So if I replace the rigging in 5 or 6 years it will increase the resale value of the boat in future.

I doubt it will actually increase the value of the boat. It might make it more saleable for a few years after the rerig - it will reduce the worries of a purchaser if the rig has beed replaced recently. It will tend to be seen in the context of 'is this an obviously well (or poorly) maintained boat'.

There's a mysterious economic principle by which money you spend on maintenance and upgrading a boat generally doesn't significantly increase its value, but failing to spend money on maintenance and upgrades does significantly decrease its value!

 

[Sandy]

Thanks everyone. The consensus seems to be, if it ain’t broken don’t fix it ?
My thoughts are that I shall get a professional inspection done and move forward from there. All things being equal, there should be years of life left in the rig. So if I replace the rigging in 5 or 6 years it will increase the resale value of the boat in future.
Can anybody recommend a rigging firm in Plymouth please ?

I'm Plymouth based and very pleased with the service Allspars give, we have engineer to engineer type conversations.

 

[Jon magowan]

Allspars it is then !
Very many thanks indeed.

 

[Zing]

Allspars it is then !
Very many thanks indeed.

I‘ll second the recommendation for Allspars.

 

[Daydream believer]

There is another way to look at whether to replace the rig. Ask yourself how long you are going to keep the boat.
I am 76, so 5 years is going to be the max. Then I will have reached the selling point. Either by my family, if I have turned my toes up, or by me if I am knackered.
My rig is 10 years old. I have just bought new rigging, plus a new furler. The furler is because I want an adjustable one & the existing is a fixed one. I keep playing with mast rake & I have had 5 forstays since I bought the boat new in 2003 to experiment.
Now, I felt that I could get by without changing. BUT a surveyor, on behalf of a new owner will probably say, "Hey, this needs new rigging cos it is 15 years old".
The prospective owner will want to knock off £4K from my fee to pay for this.
So I looked at it & said - why not blow £3200-00 now. Have a new furler, new rigging, be safe in the knowledge it was all new. Therefore, less likely to dump my mast in the middle of the N sea.
I can play with mast rake at will. Instead of the new owner arguing about a price reduction of £4k I can have the use of the money instead.
He can hardly say the rig needs changing & the fairly new furler will be a positive- not a negative.
So advance planning might be worth considering. But I would have changed it anyway. It just made an added justification.

 

[LadyInBed]

GJW provide a specimen policy
https://www.gjwdirect.com/media/is1bltxr/yacht-insurance-policy-document-1222.pdf
Other insurers probably do as well.

 

[Daydream believer]

GJW provide a specimen policy
https://www.gjwdirect.com/media/is1bltxr/yacht-insurance-policy-document-1222.pdf
Other insurers probably do as well.

So what are you telling us re rigging Trigger?

 

[LadyInBed]

So what are you telling us re rigging Trigger?

Not a lot, just replying to the subject of the thread!

I ask for actual T&C text from any Insurance Co people have dealt with

Wind your neck in

 

[Refueler]

Not a lot, just replying to the subject of the thread!

Wind your neck in

Tks for the example ...

As for winding my neck in ... why ?

So often we see people post - change rigging at 10yrs. My question is to ask for verification that actually is a condition of insurance. It seems that I am not only one who is interested in it.

 

[ean_p]

Tks for the example ...

As for winding my neck in ... why ?

So often we see people post - change rigging at 10yrs. My question is to ask for verification that actually is a condition of insurance. It seems that I am not only one who is interested in it.

I don't think an insurance company would make that a general policy requirement as to do so may create the implication that rigging in their view is good for 10 years when clearly that is not always the case. What they will ask is that the craft is maintained in a condition to suit its requirements and then the onus is on the owner whether the rigging is hard worked and 5 years old or lightly worked and 20 years old.....