zoidberg
Well-known member
.... from Lyn Pardey
Your thoughts?
Your thoughts?
A thought
- Thread starter zoidberg
- Start date
Wansworth
Well-known member
Having sailed a small engineless boat along the Spanish northern coast I would say a motor would have been altogether more seaman like and safer and given access to more harbours
Dellquay13
Well-known member
Is the nice combination ‘competent sailboat’ and ‘no hard and fast schedule’?
Those two together sound like the engine being very much an auxiliary isn’t much of a hardship
Roberto
Well-known member
In my youth I sailed an engineless 9m racer (a half tonner, at the time), it was fun and we learnt a lot in sail handling for safety too.
With my current boat (average plastic), not having an engine would have meant not being able to sail in places I wanted to and loved, and also probably lose the boat a few times. The "schedule" for having a decent wind might mean having to wait for six months, or simply never get it. The typical self-question on approach is "what if the engine stops"
With my current boat (average plastic), not having an engine would have meant not being able to sail in places I wanted to and loved, and also probably lose the boat a few times. The "schedule" for having a decent wind might mean having to wait for six months, or simply never get it. The typical self-question on approach is "what if the engine stops"
srm
Well-known member
I used to have a Trintella 29 with an 8HP single cylinder Saab diesel and controllable pitch prop. Worked very well; we even towed a much bigger and heavier yacht through the Caledonian Canal. I once had to make some 30 exposed miles to windward in a F7 to 8 in order to lift the boat out. Storm jib and trysail plus engine at fast tick over got us there on time. Nowadays that engine would be regarded as the very low end of "auxilliary" power.
Looking at adds the other day I came across a Trintella 29 boasting a recent new engine - 29HP.
Looking at adds the other day I came across a Trintella 29 boasting a recent new engine - 29HP.
johnalison
Well-known member
It depends on your range of sailing. My early boats’ engines were very much auxiliaries but my current 34 will cruise at 6.5 knots for 70 hours on one tank, at least in theory. If your sailing is just local, a small engine is all you need, and I think the same applies to long-distance sailors, who can’t realistically expect to motor for much of their journeys, but those of us in between would expect to be able to do something like a Channel crossing at a reasonable lick.
Supertramp
Well-known member
The key is the "no hard and fast schedule". That means being prepared to wait for a favourable wind, and being prepared to adjust your destination if the wind drops or changes. So much of modern life seems to involve rushing and meeting timings, and marinas demand engines for access.
As SRM points out the old auxiliary was small, helped the sails (and was sometimes unreliable). Hand start and often no electrics (oil lamps). In common with many modern boats I am "overengined" and in reality rarely use more than 20 of the 57hp available. 20hp was probably the size of an auxiliary engine for my size of boat 50yrs ago. And now it's too big to row or paddle, which I recall doing to save putting the engine on.
Sometimes progress doesn't take you in the direction you want to go....
As SRM points out the old auxiliary was small, helped the sails (and was sometimes unreliable). Hand start and often no electrics (oil lamps). In common with many modern boats I am "overengined" and in reality rarely use more than 20 of the 57hp available. 20hp was probably the size of an auxiliary engine for my size of boat 50yrs ago. And now it's too big to row or paddle, which I recall doing to save putting the engine on.
Sometimes progress doesn't take you in the direction you want to go....
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Wansworth
Well-known member
There is as much seamanship involved in a motor vessel as a sailing vessel,certainly theses days of marinas and crowded anchorage es a motor is the right way to go……seamanship also applies to maintaining the engine!
westhinder
Well-known member
Indeed. We are currently on the return half of a three months cruise that has taken us from Belgium to Stockholm and hopefully back home. The return is against the dominating wind pattern, so in order to make progress you have to be prepared to make use of a windless day to cover some distance using the engine. We have seen a number of traditional Swedish yachts in the skärgård without engine or with a small outboard, which is fine for local sailing between the islands and rocks, but not for our kind of trips.
That does not imply a judgement, just different styles of sailing, both equally rewarding.
zoidberg
Well-known member
Some of the above had me recalling some of the 'fun events' when, over the years, an engine went AWOL and coming to an anchorage/jetty/finger pontoon under sail was required. For more than a decade I 'rode shotgun' on a friend's Rival 34. Despite the sums he spent on ropey yards and dodgy 'leckys, there was almost invariably 'something wrong with the engine' when it was called upon to earn its keep.
Here's a little, and certainly not exhaustive, list:
North Channel into Islay/Port Ellen, rising NW gale - sheared gearbox coupling.
Port Ellen to Oban via Crinan/Dorus Mhor/Sound of Luing
Oban - dead engine onto SC empty mooring, then shifted to another when the first crumbled in the dawn like wet tobacco. SW gale.
Bristol Channel into Crosshaven - impeller/Vetus mixer bottle melting.
Castletownbere - propeller/rope
Herm/Jethou passage - sheared fuel pipe, sailed onto ferryboat mooring.
St Peter Port - sheared fuel pipe, outer harbour pontoon.
St Ives to Newlyn - engine wiring fire
Chenal du Four to Brest/Castle Marina - impeller/Vetus bottle melted.
But then, my apprenticeship in 'occasional engines' started with Seagull Silver Century 'burnt knuckles'.
Here's a little, and certainly not exhaustive, list:
North Channel into Islay/Port Ellen, rising NW gale - sheared gearbox coupling.
Port Ellen to Oban via Crinan/Dorus Mhor/Sound of Luing
Oban - dead engine onto SC empty mooring, then shifted to another when the first crumbled in the dawn like wet tobacco. SW gale.
Bristol Channel into Crosshaven - impeller/Vetus mixer bottle melting.
Castletownbere - propeller/rope
Herm/Jethou passage - sheared fuel pipe, sailed onto ferryboat mooring.
St Peter Port - sheared fuel pipe, outer harbour pontoon.
St Ives to Newlyn - engine wiring fire
Chenal du Four to Brest/Castle Marina - impeller/Vetus bottle melted.
But then, my apprenticeship in 'occasional engines' started with Seagull Silver Century 'burnt knuckles'.
LittleSister
Well-known member
For all you fainthearts, may I remind you of Charlie Stock, who sailed weekends (and an annual(?) longer trip) in his 17' engineless gaffer Shoal Waters, and reckoned he did more miles annually than the East Anglian Offshore racers (with their trips to the Netherlands etc.), and had only once in 40 years failed to get home on a Sunday night.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
We’re an outboard powered sailboat. Definitely an auxilliary. Ok, we can do 8knots under engine, but the unpleasantness of that means you never do. We very rarely run more than half throttle. But sailing into a marina would so often present certain insurmountable difficulties, we always motor. Happy to sail into say, Newtown, if it’s not too busy, or pick up a mooring. But negotiating Yarmouth harbour and the swing bridge, er, no thanks. And imagine the Beaulieu river. Tacking a 25ft wide boat in there would be unseamanlike, as wansworth would put it. It’s not our aim to be a menace to marine society. Most people can’t manage without an engine these day. The sailing waterscareca lot more crowded than in days of yore, and a lot of places only have beastly awkward moorings, if you’re under sail.. You have to have one, even if it’s a bit feeble. You need a good one where we are if you can’t sail against the tide, if you’re not retired. Otherwise, you’d have a 6 hour range.
Bristolfashion
Well-known member
I'd be interested in the experiences / knowledge of others, but sailing an engine less boat between anchorages & the home mooring "back in the day" seems more practical than when in close proximity to to a lot of big, shiny boats today. A lot of anchoring fields are pretty full of moorings these days.
johnalison
Well-known member
My only experience of an engineless boat, other than from breakdowns, is of hired craft on the Broads. I would hire 2,3 or 4- berth sailing boats for a week. In half a dozen holidays I think that I always managed to go from Potter or Horning to Wroxham, Barton Broad, and Horsey Mere and return the following Saturday on time. The special delight was in never quite knowing where you would end up the next day, and I imagine that coasting sailing would have the same frisson.
On the other hand, a good many sailors have to be back at work on Monday and have to choose between not going out, or relying on the engine, which sound reasonable to me. Not everyone has the luxury of time, or the sheer daftness of the three men we met in Dieppe, having taken three days to cross from Rye in the middle of an anticyclone.
On the other hand, a good many sailors have to be back at work on Monday and have to choose between not going out, or relying on the engine, which sound reasonable to me. Not everyone has the luxury of time, or the sheer daftness of the three men we met in Dieppe, having taken three days to cross from Rye in the middle of an anticyclone.
Neeves
Well-known member
It annoys me intensely that when I look at historic anchorages they were obviously safe locations (old Admiralty Pilot books). Thos same location have now been taken over by mooring fields and marinas (with big breakwaters). The safe locations have disappeared - leaving much more exposed locations if you do want, or need, to anchor.
Jonathan
Wansworth
Well-known member
In the little coaster I worked on the skipper a old barge man knew all the anchour ages and in the winter we would sneak into one or two trying to go west or north from the Thames……..although he did say in a motor ship you couldn’t contact the office to say you were weather bound,whereas Ina barge with no radio he just lay peacefully at anchour till the wind served
LittleSister
Well-known member
I think Charlie Stock's and perhaps your own Broads examples show that is not the case.
The other choice, beyond not going out or relying on your engine, is to let the tide and wind shape what you do with the weekend. Instead of saying 'next weekend we'll go to X and back, eating out on Saturday' night, and punching against the wind and tide to get there, you pay closer attention to the tides and to the unfolding weather, and adjust your destination and the timings of departures, where/when one eats and sleeps, etc. accordingly.
I think it's largely a matter of mindset rather than engines. We are so used to a lifestyle where we we can live by the clock and the map, unconstrained by daylight, public transport timetables, geography, weather, tides, etc. We are to some extent prisoners of our unexamined assumptions and habits.
I am certainly not saying that people should not have engines, should not make a reservation in the restaurant at harbour B for Saturday night, just pointing out that it is largely our expectations, rather than the need to be at work on Monday, that makes us so reliant on our engines.
zoidberg
Well-known member
It is something of a luxury, an indulgence, to look at the sea, the wind and the sky - and shape one's day accordingly.
One of my pleasures, on going aboard, was removal of my wristwatch.
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
The Pardey's were practitioners of low tech sailing and relied on the wind far more than others i.e. they took it as it came and dealt with it. Likely she is paying homage to that part of her life, after all, pure Pardey would not have an engine.
The utility of our auxiliary engines is well demonstrated.
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
For a long time, even after the ubiquitousness of carrying a mobile phone, it was leaving behind the phone signals. That has now gone as well, as cell coverage is near universal and even mobile phone SOS calls now link to satellites. Still, it is more of a position that one takes, rather than the availability off technology, that really matters.
An interesting article on AI suggests that speed of incorporation of AI into everyday activities and replacement of human skills, is extremely rapid. I wonder if leisure sailors will take to the seas to escape the shear drudgery of a life where AI gives expert opinion at the drop of a hat and go sailing without access to stuff, maybe not even wearing lifejackets, just to be free from tech. Who knows what the future will hold.
Not yet panicking about AI? You should be – there's little time left to rein it in | Daniel Kehlmann
