A Knotty Problem

[Tomsk]

Can anyone help me with a knot?

I saw a knot in PBO (I think) a few years ago that would be very useful to me now, but so far have been unable to recreate it..

My problem: I often single hand, and occasionally have to drive against a spring to force my stern out before going astern from my beam on berth. Currently I run a light warp from a rear cleat, along the full length of the boat, through the fairlead, back to a pontoon cleat 1/3 of way down the boats length, back up and through the fairlaid and finally back to the aft cleat. This allows me to drive onto the spring and easily release it from the cockpit without having to let go of the tiller. As you can image this leaves me with a hell of a lot of warp to haul in (in my case about 25 metres) which I'm sure would try to head straight for my prop should anything go wrong!

The knot I saw in PBO was something akin to a 'slip dog'.. a knot that could be release by removing the 'key'. The way I would like to use this would be to run my warp from the rear cleat, forward and through the fairlead and down to the pontoon cleat. A second (short) line runs from the cockpit directly down to the pontoon cleat and through the knot acting as the slip dog. Pulling the short line free releases the warp from the cleat leaving me just a few metres to haul aboard and back down to the cockpit from the forward fairlead with little risk to the prop.

Is this making sense??

I have tried using a wooden key (slip dog) but found that a straight key jammed under tension and a tapered one slipped out under tension...

Can any one remember the format of the knot I am looking for or offer any other solutions?

Many thanks

 

[Poignard]

I have the same problem and recently found a suitable knot which I am looking forward to trying out this season [it works well when tried on the back of a kitchen chair!]. It's called a "Highwayman's Knot", i.e. useful if you need to leave in a hurry.

It's shown on www.inquiry.net/images/rope01.gif

p.s. the words on figure 3 are: "Tighten" and "Pull to release".

 

[Lakesailor]

If you can't find it try this site http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/knotlink.htm#sailing which is a huge directory of all types of knot sites.

 

[Kilter]

There is also this site

 

[Stellina]

The highwaymans knot would be difficult to release under tension and if not kept tight can undo (pull the release loop through the holding loop); both depending on how stiff the rope is. Not sure I'd trust it under load if there are other boats around; and it leaves a loop on the pontoon to catch on something.

 

[aztec]

i'm not sure (sorry!)

could it be another use for the self rescue knot?

the standing part takes the load, the running end when pulled releases it.

i've not tried the google thing yet, but it's reportedly well known in special departments of our armed forces.

give me a shout if this rings a bell.

 

[Tomsk]

I don't recall what the knot was called that I'm looking for, but your self rescue not sounds pretty similar...

regards

 

[Poignard]

Re: Highwayman's Knot

Obviously knot intended for permanent mooring but just rigged for that last minute slipping and, if used as a spring, it would be under tension once the engine is in gear. Nevertheless, I think I'll wait until my neighbours' boats are off the pontoon before I try it out!

 

[Tomsk]

Well I've had a good search around google, and followed all the links above but have had no joy in finding a solution /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

If you have any brainwaves please let me know!

thanks for all the replies

 

[Superstrath]

The Highwayman's knot is a good trick knot, handy for securing a well-behaved horse. The clever bit is that the whole rope come saway from one side of the post or rail, with little danger of snagging. However, even if pulled up well, it WILL topple with not much of a pull on the standing part, undoing itself beautifully. I sure as hell wouldn't lean a boat under power on a spring secured with one, or trust my weight to one. Think again, is my advice.

Alistair

 

[Stemar]

Try here. I sometimes use it for similar purposes, but I have had it jam embarassingly a couple of times. Once with a rather "squashy" line when it tightened up so much under load that I couldn't trip it, and once when the locking bight hooked itself around the horn of the cleat.

Used on my rather stiff laid nylon main warps it's fine for the few seconds it takes to get organised and spring off, but I certainly wouldn't trust it for long with the boat pulling off the pontoon and me still ashore! Try it with the lines you use before using it in anger and tie it through the hole in the cleat and over the top rather than around it.

I understand that special forces do use it, so the problems Ive had are most probably because I didn't tie it properly. I doubt thay'd trust their lives to an insecure knot!

 

[Poignard]

[ QUOTE ]
...but I certainly wouldn't trust it for long with the boat pulling off the pontoon and me still ashore..

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I wouldn't trust it at all under those circumstances. There is absolutely no need to.

The thing to do is to rig spring with the Highwayman's Knot so that it's ready for use before letting go the other lines [which would be rigged as slips so they can be released and pulled back from on board].

 

[Gunfleet]

If it's your berth why don't you make up the spring on the pontoon and then just drop it off your boat cleat when you leave? If that's not practical, bearing in mind the fear of getting it around the prop, if it only serves this purpose (which I understand, I singlehand too) why not use quite light floating line?

 

[Mudhook]

The Mudhook

Thinking about this, I've just invented it. It's a sheet bend in which the last action is to pull a bight through to secure it rather than just the end of the rope. It seems to release under pressure. As there's nothing new under the sun in repework this will have been done before and called somthing or other. if not, I claim the Mudhook Bend!

Meanwhile, I'm not sure why you need a long spring. A long spring for mooring is to give some elastic against surge. You don't need this for springing off. The nature of the spring is that it's against the "normal" run of bow-line/stern line. A good one for mooring is long, as noted above, but it's not an intrinsic part of a spring that it be very long. When I'm backing up against a spring, I always shorten up to a dockside cleat somewere level with the main hatch, and make it a slip line back to the boat. You don't need a long sping here. Short spring, fender at back corner, reverse... bow swings out slowly... a touch ahead and then all the time in the world to pull in maybe 4 - 5m of rope.

I hope this helps.

Regards, Mudhook

 

[Tomsk]

Re: The Mudhook

Hi Mudhook!

I quite agree when springing the bow out, however my problem occurs when trying to spring the stern out.. coupled with the fact that I want to release the spring from the cockpit whilst still holding on to the tiller!

Thanks for details of your Mudhook however.. I shall copyright that tonight /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Mudhook]

Re: The Mudhook

My apologies - I didn't read the question properly! But short-handed or not, I'm always a bit wary of long slip lines. Let me know how you get on with the Mudhook - we should be able to split the huge profits!

Regards, Mudhook

 

[Hardley]

I sail a lot on my own & to leave my berth I have permanently attached to the pontoon, aft & Forward springs, both with eyes in the end, both go onto my centre cleat.
If I want to leave with the stern out, I motor slow ahead, tiller over to starboard (I am moored port side to) when the stern has swing out enough, I put engine in neutral, walk to centre cleat & cast off both springs, throwing them onto pontoon, walk back to tiller and reverse out, no problem and I have two springs ready on pontoon to pick up when I return, motor ahead or astern and take my time to rig bow & stern lines.
I have also seen the above system with shock cord attached to pontoon and each spring, so that when you cast of the springs, they are pulled neatly onto the pontoon.