A bad sail boat

[StugeronSteve]

Re: Ocean Going Sailboat in natural environment?

Unfortunately Surprise's undoubted sailing abilities were purely fictional, and I'm pretty sure that O'Brian describes her as being an ex-French warship, taken as a prize.

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Yankee ships

Where the American naval constructors excelled was in escalation. They built some fine frigates such as the Constitution which were almost 50% bigger than British frigates (so could better them in most circumstances) but faster than British line-of-battle ships, and so could escape being battered by heavier metal.

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[tcm]

Re: legality

any idea how er legal this is? Bylaws etc? Obv there is bit of er risk to anyone on the beach who don't normally spect the boats out there to come up here.

In france it's strictly for off-season - altho there is always a 5 knot (?) limit with 300m (?) ofshore of the whole coastline of france.

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[Twister_Ken]

I know mobos can do this, especially when James Bond is at the wheel.

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[robp]

Talking of which, did you see Alan Titchmarsh last night? Could be quite good if they show some more of him sailing a sailing boat.

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[Twister_Ken]

Baah!

Can't stand Titchmarsh. He did his best (ably assisted by Leonard Slatkin) to ruin the Last Night of the Proms. The talentless celebrity (polite word, that) is widerspread than Macdonald's burgeratoria.

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[robp]

Re: Baah!

Didn't see that. I might have been upset too, if I'd seen Henry's tradition buggered up.
I was just surprised to see him in a rather contrived singlehanded shot, planing along on a motor cruiser South of the Needles.

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[Peppermint]

Re: A bad boat might be a good boat

it depends whats happening around it. A Magregor 24 or whatever there called might be a bit uncomfortable upwind in a Biscay blow but on a flat calm day and you with an urgent reason to be elsewhere it would be fine. I'd second the idea that bad skippers do the harm not bad boats.

My problem with beaching as a survival tactic would be lack of control. You have little idea of the likely outcome. The Navy Manual of Seamanship will explain how quite a large whaler can be beached through surf with reasonable safety. That being said the whaler is almost made for the job and it's still not a practise for the feint hearted.

With a deep keel, I'm assuming that at the first touch on the bottom you would need to turn across the surf and hope that you would be sent up the beach, on your side, with the keel to seaward so that the hull was sheltering the crew a bit.

It really would have to be the only game in town.

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[mighetto]

Re: A bad boat might be a good boat

<< I'd be most interested to hear of any actual experiences of runnning a
yacht or power-boat (McGregor 26 sized or above) onto a lee shore as a heavy
weather tactic - say F7 or more.>>

Force 7 is 30 knots or so. This is Small Craft Advisory in the USA. You will see
sailboats but very few cabin cruisers or open motor boats. The Mac26x - like all
ocean sailboats is fine in this weather. Normally you would not be sailing into the
wind in these conditions and you would use the Genoa only in storm jib size. Much
higher and you might sail the hull. I have sailed in such conditions. The boat will
not get pooped if you keep the sail up. If you drop sail, there may be water in the
self bailing cockpit.

If you have ever seen a sport fishing boat run through surf you know what the
Mac26x might do. Surf the waves right in. I tested this concept out a few months
ago before the surf line. I think it would work just fine. But that is for some thrill
seaker to check out. Not the kind of thing for responsible boaters to practice.

"Tilly Twin" in the June 1956 F11 Channel Storm. The skipper deliberately cut
the anchor cable to run ashore. Lightweight design and so when the 6' keel
touched, it slewed around broadside to the waves but had enough reserve
buoyancy to float in 2' of water. The boat was undamaged. (Source : Heavy
Weather Sailing).

Was Tilly Twin a full keel boat? This is the same thing that happened to the sailboat
in Perfect storm. A full keel boat like a Bristol Channel Cutter 28 is not a design to
be particullarly concerned about. Of course over a period of time, pounding surf
will take its tole

The comment was that this was really a last ditch measure and should only be
attempted in relatively sheltered waters.

No one should be on a boat in Force 11 or take a boat out in a gale just to prove
something. But lets put this into perspective.

Analysis of popular cruising areas reveals that 98% of the time winds are
between 4 and 21 knots (4.6 and 24.15 MPH). 93% of the time they are
between between 4 and 16 knots (4.6 and 18.4 MPH).

My point is that folks in fast sailboats must chose to sail gail and storm and
hurricane. There is enough weather predictability to avoid hazard. If you wanted
the trill of doing so anyway you would have to be Lucky. Your chance of having
the boat ready for the thrill is 2 in 100.


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[kosmas]

Re: A bad boat might be a good boat

Mac25... an ocean yacht! I don't want to be too negative on your favorite boat but an OCEAN yacht is too hefty a title. Columbia and Contesa may have made some small ocean yachts, not to forget about pearson's early little icebreakers.

About your weather predictability issue. I was in Miami, on a mooring I was paying dearly for (piece of chain tied who knows how at the 7-9ft bottom) almost asleep when the halyards bouncing of the mast changed rythm. Yeah, I know you should tie them to the side, but they serve me as an alarm that wakes me up (the only one). I pop my head out there was just a light breeze, so I go out for a cig. By the time the cig was half smoked the wind had picked up some and rain started driping. In I go, rainjacket all tied up, gloves, shoes.. I had seen the soap opera before. Engine is running and the weather radio says chance of rain 30%, it is now pouring in tropical fashion, winds calm. You could bearly make out the word "calm" as the wind is now howling.
If the chain or mooring breaks I'll have the engine kicking in to drive me away from other boats and rocks. Luckily mine held "this time". Three other sailboats went straight to the rocks by a bridge, an other into the marina slumming other boats. The mini storm lasted 30mins. Miami Int.Airport reported several gusts around 135mph... no tornadoes or spouts! Just wind and rain!
Sailboats, if properly equipped and prepared can last a hurricane in mid ocean. Land and boats are threats, water is not.
What's a bad boat. That's easy, a poorly prepared one. What is a good boat? Now that is a hard question no manufacturer has answered. One that is fast, easy, safe, big, light, small, etc... Compromises are real boats. Get the one you like the most from those you can afford and learn how to live with it.

<hr width=100% size=1>A buoyant beer cooler while loaded is an ocean survival kit!

 

[Birdseye]

Re: A bad boat might be a good boat

" Analysis of popular cruising areas reveals that 98% of the time winds are
between 4 and 21 knots (4.6 and 24.15 MPH). 93% of the time they are
between between 4 and 16 knots (4.6 and 18.4 MPH).

My point is that folks in fast sailboats must chose to sail gail and storm and
hurricane. There is enough weather predictability to avoid hazard. If you wanted
the trill of doing so anyway you would have to be Lucky. Your chance of having
the boat ready for the thrill is 2 in 100. "

Had to smile. The predictability might be there off a big land mass like North America, but I wouldnt bet on the timing of any gale warning over here. And there is no way that the winds here have 98% been below 21 knots this "summer".

But do you really think that the Macgregor 26 is an Ocean sailing boat ie one that you can safely cross oceans in? Out board powered? Just 26ft long? With really high topsides?

To me (and there are one or two such boats round here) they just look like ugly crossbreads between speedboats and sailing boats. A sailing mule.

I thought your earlier post about swing keels was absolutely right. Going aground is something that happens in the best run boats particularly with tidal ranges of 12m as we have here. I tried a Southerly 110 at the recent SBShow and the demo party trick was to run the swing keel into a sandbank at the side of the channel. Really soft landing, then just raise the keel a bit and sail off again. Plus all the benefits of what I believe you call gunkholing.

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[Jacket]

Re: Ocean Going Sailboat in natural environment?

<But this kind of walk on transom or fan tail alows
one to pick up water skiers or a man overboard. The later if not former
functionally every one agrees is desirable.>

Everyone agrees is desirable? Where do you get your ideas from? I've never met any experienced skipper who thinks that this is a good idea in anything short of a flat calm. At sea, in any sort of chop, its a good way of breaking the MOB's skull, as the hull slams down on top of him.

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[Twister_Ken]

Re: Ocean Going Sailboat in natural environment?

> its a good way of breaking the MOB's skull, as the hull slams down on top of him. <

Or impales him on the outboard skeg.

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