65-70ft Fly docking-mooring with only 2 persons?

[hkikis]

Hello my friends.

At 5/2020 I wrote a similar thread asking about 50-55ft the same question and without any serious experience before (only 33ft previous at 2019).
Thank you for your replies and thank you that you encourage me to believe that I can be a captain of this size of boat.
After your replies I bought my lovely Squadron 55. It was so easy finally and I had only good moments.
Very nice family travels and also I did 3 daily charters And I was satisfyingly!!
Finally without any yacht controller that I was ready to order it.... After the first trip I felt that I dont need it.

Now what I want again?? Haha
I am very satisfied with SQ55... The boat is wonderful..
But I cannot say that I don't like bigger boats.
Too early maybe I want to change but if I can handle the size of the boat in driving condition I would like to do it

So what do you think?
How easy is me and my girlfriend alone to do the job ??


Now with my experience I can give a reply but maybe I am wrong.
Ok let's do it... We are in port and we want to dock..
1. We take a look for a space for us (80cm more ofcourse will be more difficult to find a space)
2. Through away anchor and we going back...
3. With axles I will align it..
4. Bow - Stern if I need help to align it..
5. My girl through a rope at someone to the dock and he through it back to us.
6. I am leaving fly and with anchor-bow-stern wireless controller in my hand I align again if I will need it untill to put the second rope and finish it.
7. Maybe I will need to play with the anchor a little to adjust the space to the dock.

All theese how much different are at 68ft from 55?


The boat that I have in my mind is Azimut 68!! I would like more Azimut 62 because it will be easier but I cannot find it in a good price.


I will be happy to see a lot replies again

 

[Hurricane]

All I can say is that 13 years ago, SWMBO and I went from a 51 footer to a 67 footer.
There really isn't much difference.
And for me this saying is true - "the bigger the boat the easier it is"
The only difference for me was that the 67 footer was brand new and I didn't want to scratch her.

As the boats get bigger, you have to consider the momentum more carefully.
The bow swinging round fast on a 40 footer can be stopped easily with a fender.
The same speed of the bow swinging round on a 67 footer could cause damage.
So, you just make sure that it swings slower.
As you say a wireless thruster controller can be useful but I really only use that when the boat is in her berth whilst the lines are being tied off (we have a pontoon berth).
Other than that, the wireless controller isn't used - just the thruster joysticks at the helm position.

SWMBO and I (on our own) are very comfortable handling the boat on our own even when stern berthing - Med style.
We have found the Bluetooth wireless headsets help - on the bigger boats, it is harder to talk or see each other.

Other than that the jump from a SQ55 to an Azimut 68 should be easy.
As far as manoeuvrability, I really wouldn't worry about the extra size.
Go for the bigger boat.

 

[vas]

Mike and others,

OP is in Greece, which means that the Med to mooring he's going to be assigned to (or his home port) he'll be ALONE (with his gf) I mean 99% no marineros with ribs helping, no guys at the dock to throw lines to, nothing nada!
OTOH, in many cases he'll have to drop anchor and reverse to the mooring, which means he has a v.good control point at the bow and that helps a lot when you're alone (just fingers crossed you don't foul some other anchors or chains on the seabed...)

V.

 

[Seastoke]

Mike and others,

OP is in Greece, which means that the Med to mooring he's going to be assigned to (or his home port) he'll be ALONE (with his gf) I mean 99% no marineros with ribs helping, no guys at the dock to throw lines to, nothing nada!
OTOH, in many cases he'll have to drop anchor and reverse to the mooring, which means he has a v.good control point at the bow and that helps a lot when you're alone (just fingers crossed you don't foul some other anchors or chains on the seabed...)

V.

Do you know him Vas.

 

[hkikis]

Yes in Greece in our permanent mooring position at the marina it is quite difficult.
Stern berthing without anchor.. Ropes for bow and stern..

When we are going to islands ports we drop anchor and someone always will give us back our rope from the dock. After that it is easy.
The bow is stable from the anchor so yes this type of mooring will not anxious me.

The permanent position without stable the bow if it will be windy it is more difficult.
Sure you will use the left or right boat with fenders to help you keep the postilion.
If theese boats aren't in their position you need to have very good skills to keep it stable and very fast assistant.
And yes a lot of time noone will be there to give you a rope so you need with the assistant need to leave the boat with the gangway.
So in this case it will be quite difficult with only your SWMBO.

Thanks God I dont have this type of permanent mooring position. I am one of the few that I have a side mooring position!!!!!
So i dont need neither SWMBO.... I can do it everything alone with SQ55 so I can do it with the AZ68 for sure.
Ofcourse with wireless bow stern on hand!


Anyway big boat has a lot of responsibility! I am a lot afraid! But I was more afraid when I bought SQ55 from my open small boat (Bavaria 33ft without bow without electronic throttles )
I bought SQ55 and the first month I couldn't even try to go anywhere because I coudn't handle it. After 3 lessons I felt able to do it... And I did over 150hours happy hours
Now I feel afraid to drive a so big boat but for sure I could try.
With slow motions and a lot of thoughtfulness we can drive and far bigger than 68!

But it is isn't only important if I am ABLE to do it.
The think is if I will enjoy it more.

Positives of 68 vs 55
- Unbelievable space
- Unbelievable comfortable
- More interesting for charger use (I like to make chaters)

Negatives of 68 vs 55
- Fuel consumption
- A little more expensive marina
- More difficult with only SWMBO

So when I am thinking positives and negatives I am thinking only how can I go only with SWMBO.
This is something that I like to do. If I have to do only this SQ55 is wonderful. But I like also charters or to go with my whole family.
Also I use it a lot of times like second house. And you know how much difference there is between 68 and 55.... Double boat.


Hurricane
What is your 67ft boat ?
Very interesting that your are using 13 years a so big boat only with SWMBO...
Have you ever felt that you need another person to help with something?
I understand that if it is fly boat and you have good visibility of your stern you can do everything alone and your SWMBO just be ready to put just a fender for help and take the rope from the dock.

 

[vas]

Do you know him Vas.

nope, 10m ppl in Greece, nowadays I'm 95% in Volos (330km from Athens)

 

[MapisM]

without stable the bow if it will be windy it is more difficult

Not really, it's just a matter of using the right technique.
After reversing in your berth, just secure the stern line on the upwind side of the boat.
Job done, you don't need anything else.
In fact, for contrasting the tendency of the bow to be pushed sideways by the wind, it's sufficient to use the downwind engine, engaging the forward gear for as long and as frequently as needed.
You can keep the boat in that position all day long, just with one line, and with no need for any thrusters.

Another thing you might consider is to NOT ask the dock hand to throw you back the stern line, but ask him/her to secure it directly to the dock instead.
Throwing the line back onboard only adds one useless step that can go wrong.
And unless your dock has rings rather than bollards/cleats, you can as well throw to the dock hand a line with an already made bowline knot.
That's the fastest and more fool proof way of handling stern lines.

All that aside, the short answer to your question about which differences there are between a 55 and a 68 footer is none whatsoever.

 

[Hurricane]

Another thing you might consider is to NOT ask the dock hand to throw you back the stern line, but ask him/her to secure it directly to the dock instead.
Throwing the line back onboard only adds one useless step that can go wrong.
And unless your dock has rings rather than bollards/cleats, you can as well throw to the dock hand a line with an already made bowline knot.
That's the fastest and more fool proof way of handling stern lines.

Absolutely.
Even more difficult if you don't speak the local language very well - telling someone to throw the end back can get lost in the translation!!!
You can rig any slip lines later.

Reminds me of a case in Palma when a yacht under delivery came in next to us - skipper, mate and their two bimbos.
The whole thing got out of control when the engine stuck in reverse - the mate was like a gazelle - leapt off the bow into a Williams rib that they were towing backwards.
I think this issue had happened before because he was truing to race around and jam the rib between the yacht and the dock.
We jumped up and shouted to the bimbos to "throw us that line" - they did - the whole thing - all neatly coiled up!!!

 

[Hurricane]

Hurricane
What is your 67ft boat ?
Very interesting that your are using 13 years a so big boat only with SWMBO...
Have you ever felt that you need another person to help with something?
I understand that if it is fly boat and you have good visibility of your stern you can do everything alone and your SWMBO just be ready to put just a fender for help and take the rope from the dock.

She is a Princess 67 ( a little over 20m long) - Flybridge.
Although just SWMBO and I handle the boat, we have often got others on board.
As MapisM says, it is just a matter of using the right technique.
And I would say that the difference in handling a SQ55 and an Azimut 68 would be very little.

 

[hkikis]

Not really, it's just a matter of using the right technique.
After reversing in your berth, just secure the stern line on the upwind side of the boat.
Job done, you don't need anything else.
In fact, for contrasting the tendency of the bow to be pushed sideways by the wind, it's sufficient to use the downwind engine, engaging the forward gear for as long and as frequently as needed.
You can keep the boat in that position all day long, just with one line, and with no need for any thrusters.

Another thing you might consider is to NOT ask the dock hand to throw you back the stern line, but ask him/her to secure it directly to the dock instead.
Throwing the line back onboard only adds one useless step that can go wrong.
And unless your dock has rings rather than bollards/cleats, you can as well throw to the dock hand a line with an already made bowline knot.
That's the fastest and more fool proof way of handling stern lines.

All that aside, the short answer to your question about which differences there are between a 55 and a 68 footer is none whatsoever.

Really I cannot understand how to keep the boat stable when I have side wind with the engines..
Either forward or reverse the boat will move by the side that wind move it.
Only with thrusters you can keep it.
If there is a technique that I don't know I would like to learn it!!
The only that I know is that when there is side wind I can keep it in the right position only at the during of the transfer to the mooring position. With engaging the right gears. But when I am the final position if the SWMBO cannot do something very fast I cannot stay there... The side wind will move me. Thrusters in strong winds cannot do a miracle.

Most ports marinas have rings. It is rear to find bollard style. Also it is more difficult for someone at the dock hand to sercure the rope direct to the dock. Sometimes there are professional dock hand guys but most times they are coming from the others boat to help anyone that arriving to the port. So it is a lot easier for them just though back the rope.. Also easier for me to have the control of this rope.... To adjust the length that I want. Maybe I am wrong but this is what I am doing and I feel that it is easier.

 

[hkikis]

She is a Princess 67 ( a little over 20m long) - Flybridge.
Although just SWMBO and I handle the boat, we have often got others on board.
As MapisM says, it is just a matter of using the right technique.
And I would say that the difference in handling a SQ55 and an Azimut 68 would be very little.

Yes often I have other people on boat too... But I like the idea to be with my girl. only sometimes.
And I understand that you are right. The technique is the same.
Either 55 or 68 needs very good plan what you want to do and very careful movements.

I am here to ask more experienced people because here in Greece they told me crazy when I wanted 55ft boat! They believed that I need for sure crew with me and with just a girl I cannot docking it.
Theese people are experienced.... BUT they have for example 30-40ft boat.
They believe that I can but never tried to do it haha
If I haven't ask here at May about 55ft boat I wouldn't buy the SQ55... And I would buy a Princess 45 or Cranchi Atlantique 40
Thanks ybw members I have a boat that I love and maybe I will buy an even bigger boat soon

 

[MapisM]

Only with thrusters you can keep it.
If there is a technique that I don't know I would like to learn it!!
...
Most ports marinas have rings. It is rear to find bollard style. Also it is more difficult for someone at the dock hand to sercure the rope direct to the dock. Sometimes there are professional dock hand guys but most times they are coming from the others boat to help anyone that arriving to the port. So it is a lot easier for them just though back the rope.. Also easier for me to have the control of this rope.... To adjust the length that I want.

You can control the line also if the dock end is secured to a bollard, rather than "doubled" back onboard.
It's sufficient to recover as much line as necessary, after someone secured it to the dock for you.
But yes, when there are only rings (I did say "unless your dock has rings", in fact), I understand your preference for asking the dock hand to throw you the line back onboard.

Ref. the technique for keeping the boat from drifting in cross wind, that's what I tried to explain in the previous post, but I guess that talking of upwind line/downwind engine can be confusing.
Let's make an example:
You are reversing into your berth, and there is wind blowing from your port side - therefore pushing the boat to stbd.
The first and the only crucial thing to do is secure to the dock the stern line on port side (the "upwind" side).
Do NOT secure the other stern line, becuase if would restrict you from contrasting the wind with the engine. You can take care of it after the bow will be secured (also on port side first).
As soon as your port stern line is secured, you can engage the stbd engine (the "downwind" side engine) in forward.
The boat will try to move forward, but she can't, because the stern line is tied to the dock.
So, the only result that the stbd engine achieves is pushing the bow to port - which is exactly what you want, in order to contrast the wind.
And trust me, no bow thruster on earth can contrast the wind as effectively as this method - not to mention that you can use it for as long as you wish, as opposed to electrical bow thrusters.

There are only two things you must pay attention to:
The first, rather obvious but important, is that the stern line must be strong and well secured;
The second (with planing boats, whose idle speed is rather high) is that even with strong wind you will never need to keep the downwind engine constantly engaged. That would push the bow too much to port side, while you "only" need to keep the boat perpendicular to the dock.
But it's sufficient to engage/disangage the downwind engine for a few seconds at a time, as required for contrasting the wind.
Always ONLY with the downwind engine, and ONLY engaging it forward, anyway.

Easier done than explained, just try practicing it in a calm day to better understand how the boat reacts.

 

[hkikis]

Yes yes thank you! I understand it very good!
I haven't thought this method.
So yes in strong winds with only a stern rope and the opposite engine we can stable it without to burn the thrusters.

The problem is coming if the first rope at the upwind side cannot put immediately when you arrived at the dock. Every second the boat will move 1 meter away.

But ok as I told again I will prefer to dock next to other boat and have it at the downwind side to keep me until secure the first rope.
For sure I don't want to trust only thrusters.

Also in strong winds I will contact with local dock hand guys to be ready to help me with the ropes.
The worse thing in Greece is that you cannot find space for docking.


What about when we are in a nice beach and we want to anchor with stern ropes at rocks?
I through anchor... I reverse to be close to the rock that I want... With the gangway I prepape the tender to drop it in the water and I am leaving the boat to go to put the first critical rope......
Until to through the tender in the water if there is wind I have change position a lot.... :/
This can be a problem when you are only with SWMBO and she doesn't want neither to go with the tender to the rock haha.
The truth is that it isn't very easy to put the rope in the rock... I mean yellow ropes that they float in the water and I have ready strap (like a huge ring) . It is easy but sometimes there very wild rocks.

What I am doing? I am trying... Haha I am doing some movements with the engines again with the tender in the water... And I am going fast with wireless thrusters controller with me
Ok this is a little difficult but I am doing it

Maybe you are thinking why to put ropes in the rocks... Because after that the boat is 100% secured and you will not have think again something about the boat. Sometimes I leave the boat alone and I am going with the tender to the beach. I don't have the anxious if my boat will touch with other boats as the wind move them around the anchor.
Most motor boats doing this.. Only some sailing boats don't mind and stay only with anchor.

 

[Hurricane]

I've been doing a bit of this "Eastern Med" style tie back to the rocks - but doing it where I can in the western Med.
This kind of thing.


In that particular case, we anchored as usual in the middle of the bay, launched the tender and checked the depths etc.
Then re-anchored the boat safely with usual chain length, quite a long way from the rocks.
The boat is then safely anchored so two people in the tender can go ashore and set the line to the rocks.
We have long 25mm diameter floating ropes specifically for this.
The rope can be laid along the surface as the tender returns to the boat.
We also carry 150m chain so we then let out the chain and wind in the floating rope using the stern winches.
The anchor is such a long way out that it holds really well but a good anchor helps.
I have a 55kg Rocna which has never let us down.

So, I think, again, it is all about having your set techniques.
And not really much to do with the size of the boat.

I wish that I could do more anchoring like this in the Western Med but it is so busy that you often cant find a space where other boats wouldn't swing into you.

 

[hkikis]

Hello guys!
I am still thinking if I will be able to handle it only with my SWMBO.

I am very close with a Ferretti 68. Today I visited it in the marina and I tried to imagine how can i mooring it from the flybridge helm station and i felt a lot anxious. I dont have good view. The only view is the port side of the stern. You cannot view back or starboard. You need to imagine from experience. Do you think a camera will help me ? My squadron 55 had camera but of course i never used it as had good view.

Also the captain of the boat was very heartbraking about that subject. He believe that with this type of boat I need at least 2 people for help. I believe that this isn't true. I believe that my SWMBO can help me first with the anchor and then with the first rope at the stern. My biggest fear is if i can handle that size at maneuvering... If i can calcukate the size of the boat to don't hit it at the starboard side... Generally I fear the size.

It has bow-stern and also it has 3rd stern helm station if i will need to do some latest movenents.

If I had a controller to be free to walk in the flybridge floor to have better view i think that I wouldnt have anxious and fear. This is what I was saying before buy Squadron 55. I had ordered for Squadron. After first run I cancelled the order because I felt that it was completely useless..

Anchor-bow-stern remote controller is very usefull!!!! Squadron had it and i will put in the next too.

Maybe I can run from some seconds to the starboard side to see how is going. Of course with neutral engines and with thrusters on hand of course to control it if something happened. What do you think about that?


Hurricane as about anchored in the rocks ok it is the same even if it is small or big boat. The only difficult is if you are in a bay with a lot of boats tie back to the rocks close each other. The problem is if the SWMBO don't know to use the tender to go to put the rope. I have left some times from the boat with the tender to do it alone but it is dangerous. I had in my hand the thruster controller to help my self again. It isn't the right method the captain to leave the boat but ok I did it.
I am thinking to buy an electric surf board and I hope that she will like to go with this haha.

 

[Hurricane]

Hello guys!
I am still thinking if I will be able to handle it only with my SWMBO.

I am very close with a Ferretti 68. Today I visited it in the marina and I tried to imagine how can i mooring it from the flybridge helm station and i felt a lot anxious. I dont have good view. The only view is the port side of the stern. You cannot view back or starboard. You need to imagine from experience. Do you think a camera will help me ? My squadron 55 had camera but of course i never used it as had good view.

Also the captain of the boat was very heartbraking about that subject. He believe that with this type of boat I need at least 2 people for help. I believe that this isn't true. I believe that my SWMBO can help me first with the anchor and then with the first rope at the stern. My biggest fear is if i can handle that size at maneuvering... If i can calcukate the size of the boat to don't hit it at the starboard side... Generally I fear the size.

It has bow-stern and also it has 3rd stern helm station if i will need to do some latest movenents.

If I had a controller to be free to walk in the flybridge floor to have better view i think that I wouldnt have anxious and fear. This is what I was saying before buy Squadron 55. I had ordered for Squadron. After first run I cancelled the order because I felt that it was completely useless..

Anchor-bow-stern remote controller is very usefull!!!! Squadron had it and i will put in the next too.

Maybe I can run from some seconds to the starboard side to see how is going. Of course with neutral engines and with thrusters on hand of course to control it if something happened. What do you think about that?


Hurricane as about anchored in the rocks ok it is the same even if it is small or big boat. The only difficult is if you are in a bay with a lot of boats tie back to the rocks close each other. The problem is if the SWMBO don't know to use the tender to go to put the rope. I have left some times from the boat with the tender to do it alone but it is dangerous. I had in my hand the thruster controller to help my self again. It isn't the right method the captain to leave the boat but ok I did it.
I am thinking to buy an electric surf board and I hope that she will like to go with this haha.

We have all been there - you included.
A new boat will always be more worrying than the old one.
And the general rule is that the bigger they are - the easier they are.
Thrusters front and back are really useful.
I've never had a third station but I would definitely like to try it.
Do you sit down when driving - I don't.
I walk around the flybridge - adjust a bit and then let the momentum to the work.
That reduces the blind spots.
I have docking cameras but it took a long time to get used to them.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

OP is in Greece, which means that the Med to mooring he's going to be assigned to (or his home port) he'll be ALONE (with his gf) I mean 99% no marineros with ribs helping, no guys at the dock to throw lines to, nothing nada!
OTOH, in many cases he'll have to drop anchor and reverse to the mooring, which means he has a v.good control point at the bow and that helps a lot when you're alone (just fingers crossed you don't foul some other anchors or chains on the seabed...)

Still dont see it as a big deal. The SWMBO and I handle our Ferretti 630 (65ft LOA) on our own most of the time and thats with me helming and her doing the ropework (she does complain about that division of responsibilities sometimes). I think the key to it is that we've been doing it that way for many years and we have a somewhat telepathic understanding in that she knows how I will handle the boat and I know how she will handle the lines although before going into any mooring that we dont know, we will have a quick chat about which lines to handle first and which side of the boat she needs to watch more. We dont have cameras or headsets although we do have a 3rd helm station in the cockpit which is useful for making final adjustments to the boat. Agree with Hurricane regarding thrusters. Thrusters at the bow and stern are useful if youre shorthanded

One thing I would say though is this. I'd much rather have just one crew on board who knows what theyre doing rather than 10 crew who dont.

Another thing worth checking on a boat is whether you can see the stern of the boat from the flybridge helm, usually through the opening for the stairs to the flybridge. To be able to see how close the stern is to the quay from the flybridge helm is very useful

 

[MapisM]

Another thing worth checking on a boat is whether you can see the stern of the boat from the flybridge helm, usually through the opening for the stairs to the flybridge.
To be able to see how close the stern is to the quay from the flybridge helm is very useful

Good point M, but IIRC in the F68 you can barely see the transom through the stairs opening while helming from the f/b, but not the swim platform, and even less the dock. When mooring stern-to with that boat, after placing her ready to reverse, I'd rather go down and handle all the rest of the maneuver from the cockpit station.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Good point M, but IIRC in the F68 you can barely see the transom through the stairs opening while helming from the f/b, but not the swim platform, and even less the dock. When mooring stern-to with that boat, after placing her ready to reverse, I'd rather go down and handle all the rest of the maneuver from the cockpit station.

I can understand that. On my boat, because I can see the stern from the flybridge helm, I dont go downstairs to use the cockpit helm until the boat is almost in its moored position. I prefer to stay upstairs for as long as possible so I can see whats going on at the bow as well as the stern

 

[TonyR123]

ditto, I stay on the flybridge for as long as possible. I could probably moor the boat with just 1 if I wanted (providing not too windy) but never had to so far. Would transfer control to stern station once in the berth to then do ropes. When I upgrade to 65ft(ish) will almost certain get yachtmaster installed then can do it all myself with ease. All problems solved!