500 Euros for a Major Engine Service? Really???

Extra confusing having 2 threads running on essentially the same topic. I agree now it is clearer as in my post on the other.

Project boats , even relatively straightforward ones like this are a challenge for first timers when the shock of what is actually involved and the associated costs hit them. Even seasoned folks get caught with some things they had not anticipated (like the £1k difference in the price of my engine between early last year when I started looking and March this year when I ordered, plus 4 months delivery not ex stock!)
 
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For that work, 500 sounds a lot but I think that's about right.
Defo have the Impellor changed.
Shaft Seal, that'll need the boat out of the water to be done. (unless it's already out) I know that my local Volvo Penta workshop charged 250 euros for the seal change, three years ago on a friend's boat,
 
Tranona said:
Extra confusing having 2 threads running on essentially the same topic. I agree now it is clearer as in my post on the other.

Project boats , even relatively straightforward ones like this are a challenge for first timers when the shock of what is actually involved and the associated costs hit them. Even seasoned folks get caught with some things they had not anticipated (like the £1k difference in the price of my engine between early last year when I started looking and March this year when I ordered, plus 4 months delivery not ex stock!)
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I agree, I suspect the OP is desperately looking for someone to tell him it's a bargain and nothing to worry about. In realty there isn't for you or me a few weekends work would have it ready to move with no problem but for someone with such an obvious lack of experience and confidence it's quite an undertaking but not impossible. He does need to understand that boats cost money even sitting doing nothing and the longer they are left the more it will cost. I would like to see an independent surveyors report to really assess what must be done and what can be left for a short period. The thing that would concern me most is someone with no experience taking a Westerly Storm out single handed.
 
Cariadco said:
For that work, 500 sounds a lot but I think that's about right.
Defo have the Impellor changed.
Shaft Seal, that'll need the boat out of the water to be done. (unless it's already out) I know that my local Volvo Penta workshop charged 250 euros for the seal change, three years ago on a friend's boat,
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By seal change do you mean re packing a stuffing box or replacing a mechanical seal, lip or face?
 
Bear in mind that when you get your car serviced, there is a reference time for how long it is supposed to take. This will be multiplied by the garages cost per hour for the labour cost of your service.
One marque's garages may boast lower hourly rates than another (e.g. VW vs Mercedes). However, you will find that the VW reference times are very very generous.

For a service on your boat, you will probably pay for the real amount of time spent - not some manufactures fictive reference.
And yes, servicing an engine in a boat will probably take at least twice as long as doing the same work on a car which can be put in on a hoist.

And if it is Volvo or Yanmar, you will then get fleeced for the parts cost on top of that.
A good engineer will get you parts from another supplier where possible to avoid the Volvo or Yanmar tax.
 
Fr J Hackett said:
It's an old Volvo seal quite a primitive water lubricated grease packed seal and has probably just dried out and could get away with regressing but would be better replaced with a PSS or other type.
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Not primitive at all - just simple and idiot proof with double lip seals and a fluted rubber bearing all water lubricated and cooled. Used widely on production boats that are still shaft driven, both sail and power such as Beneteaus and Jenneaus. Only improvement as I have already suggested is to fit the Radice version (they actually make the Volvo version as well) which has an external greasing point and a vent so no burping to expel air when first launched. Exactly what I shall be fitting following over 20 years trouble free on previous boat. One third the price of a PSS and much more user friendly. It was original equipment on the Storm.
 
Fr J Hackett said:
I agree, I suspect the OP is desperately looking for someone to tell him it's a bargain and nothing to worry about. In realty there isn't for you or me a few weekends work would have it ready to move with no problem but for someone with such an obvious lack of experience and confidence it's quite an undertaking but not impossible. He does need to understand that boats cost money even sitting doing nothing and the longer they are left the more it will cost. I would like to see an independent surveyors report to really assess what must be done and what can be left for a short period. The thing that would concern me most is someone with no experience taking a Westerly Storm out single handed.
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Yes, hardly a beginners boat but he has long term ambitions.
 
Tranona said:
Not primitive at all - just simple and idiot proof with double lip seals and a fluted rubber bearing all water lubricated and cooled. Used widely on production boats that are still shaft driven, both sail and power such as Beneteaus and Jenneaus. Only improvement as I have already suggested is to fit the Radice version (they actually make the Volvo version as well) which has an external greasing point and a vent so no burping to expel air when first launched. Exactly what I shall be fitting following over 20 years trouble free on previous boat. One third the price of a PSS and much more user friendly. It was original equipment on the Storm.
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We both have different views on certain aspects of boats and sailing ? let's not confuse the issue over a Volvo / Radice which is quite primitive although efficient and serviceable compared to a PSS or any other after all he cold just fit a conventional stuffing box and be done with it.
 
Fr J Hackett said:
We both have different views on certain aspects of boats and sailing ? let's not confuse the issue over a Volvo / Radice which is quite primitive although efficient and serviceable compared to a PSS or any other after all he cold just fit a conventional stuffing box and be done with it.
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Why change what was fitted originally? Yes, we can argue about the merits of different seals, but the face seal in my view is inferior to lip seals in this type of installation and the engineering required to make them acceptable has resulted in a price way out of proportion to their supposed benefits. A stuffing box would be a retrograde step and even Westerly had ditched them in favour of the Volvo seal. Maybe for me it is too much of seeing the failings of face seals in this type of application that colours my views
 
Tranona said:
Why change what was fitted originally? Yes, we can argue about the merits of different seals, but the face seal in my view is inferior to lip seals in this type of installation and the engineering required to make them acceptable has resulted in a price way out of proportion to their supposed benefits. A stuffing box would be a retrograde step and even Westerly had ditched them in favour of the Volvo seal. Maybe for me it is too much of seeing the failings of face seals in this type of application that colours my views
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I have used PSS seals on two boats both being changed from a conventional stuffing box total time of experience about 18 years with no problems but to be fair both shafts were fitted with Halyard Aquadrives so alignment issues were non existent and probably too expensive an option for this case. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with a Volvo / Radice shaft seal but I have always been satisfied with a PSS seal.
 
Fr J Hackett said:
It's an old Volvo seal quite a primitive water lubricated grease packed seal and has probably just dried out and could get away with regressing but would be better replaced with a PSS or other type.
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Are you meaning Cariadcos friends or the OP's...?

Oops.... jumped in before reading all the replies.....!
 
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Everything in the EU appears to be more expensive in comparison to the UK and it is getting worse. I was on a sailing trip to the Republic of Ireland this summer; prices were higher for everything.
Last year, I hired a car in Greece for 5 weeks at 15 euro per day; this year for the same period the price is 55 euro per day. Brits will be finding that the EU is becoming beyond their reach.
 
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
Everything in the EU appears to be more expensive in comparison to the UK and it is getting worse. I was on a sailing trip to the Republic of Ireland this summer; prices were higher for everything.
Last year, I hired a car in Greece for 5 weeks at 15 euro per day; this year for the same period the price is 55 euro per day. Brits will be finding that the EU is becoming beyond their reach.
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Although I agree with some your posting , it's not all bad , we in the Netherlands cruising fees for mooring are very good compared with the UK @ 1.25 to 1.75 a metre one place we did pay 2 euro a metre .
In the Med this time of years marina fees are very similar to the UK unless your somewhere like Croatia, sardinia and parts of Italy.
Chandlers goods are generally cheaper in the UK especially on line,
But leavI given the EU have mess that up now having import and vat not to mention the add on the carrier charging.
Car hire gone up everywhere we once was hiring car long periods of er wi ter for 1 euro a day ,
Last winter they wanted 25 to 40 a day
 
sailaboutvic said:
Although I agree with some your posting , it's not all bad , we in the Netherlands cruising fees for mooring are very good compared with the UK @ 1.25 to 1.75 a metre one place we did pay 2 euro a metre .
In the Med this time of years marina fees are very similar to the UK unless your somewhere like Croatia, sardinia and parts of Italy.
Chandlers goods are generally cheaper in the UK especially on line,
But leavI given the EU have mess that up now having import and vat not to mention the add on the carrier charging.
Car hire gone up everywhere we once was hiring car long periods of er wi ter for 1 euro a day ,
Last winter they wanted 25 to 40 a day
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I think he meant everyday goods and it has an element of truth in it because the EU countries social models and their associated costs tend to put up prices. The question becomes do you want to live in such countries or ones like little America where people know the price of everything but the value of nothing.
 
Car hire is expensive at the moment, because during Covid the car hire companies stopped ordering new cars and sold off some of their stock to stay afloat.

Now they have cars on order, but they are not being delivered. Car manufactures prefer to deliver the limited number of cars they do produce to private customers as they have a bigger margin than fleet sales to car hire companies. Also new cars are on long orders world wide because of the chip shortage.

So the car hire companies have relatively few cars compared to normal times. Also the demand for car hire is much higher in Europe than in previous years as most Europeans are taking vacations in Europe instead of further afield. The result is that there are not enough cars for people who want to rent.

So the car hire companies get to set considerably higher prices. And they still manage to get their entire stock rented out.

Simple supply and demand.
It will of course eventually settle down to more reasonable levels and prices.
 
Fr J Hackett said:
I think he meant everyday goods and it has an element of truth in it because the EU countries social models and their associated costs tend to put up prices. The question becomes do you want to live in such countries or ones like little America where people know the price of everything but the value of nothing.
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Well Malta probably one of the most expensive when itones to evey day good you go into a super market and spend 100 euros and come out with hardly nothing.
Sicily not too bad we had the last four winters there ,
We cruised south of France and Sardinia last three years and yes you could see the prices going up year on year,
Best of all yes not the EU , is Tunisia, 50 euros and more shopping then two can carry,
Haul out 13 mts boat 80 euros in and out two years ago , we hear its gone up , its now 90 euros.
 
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