vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
No, I am paying all that with my annual yard fee. 8 grand in three years to park on their ground.
500 Euros for a Major Engine Service? Really???
- Thread starter The Real Flipper
- Start date
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
Nope it's amortised across all services and functions, basic cost spreading.
pandos
Well-Known Member
Probably already covering a share of these with yard fees etc....reality is that if you stick the word marine in front of it costs more.... When really working on an unsophisticated marine diesel is probably easier and less risky than working on most modern cars...
ylop
Well-Known Member
I don't rate your prospects of finding a good one that's not busy and who is willing to crawl around in tiny damp spaces. If you do - he'll probably never have changed a shaft seal like that or dealt with raw water cooling.
pandos
Well-Known Member
The standing overheads and costs will. But the 500 will just be extra profit...
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
STOP everyone ..
Everyone who buys a boat andnplainning to go out to sea should at the very less know how to do these basics jobs ,
Like oil and filter change cooling water and the big important one change an impellor , have a rough idea what the belt tension is cleaning of exhaust elbow , air filters and so on .
None of these jobs are that hard .
Buying tools to do these job cost but it's a one off cost plus a lot of tools you should have on board anyway .
We not talking adjust tappers,overhead cups or enjector tips which do need a bit more know how.
There are courses you can take or better still ask another boatie to show you .
If you can't be bothered to learn how to look after your engine , then dont complain when you get ripped off.
By the way I do think 500e is too much ,
Everyone who buys a boat andnplainning to go out to sea should at the very less know how to do these basics jobs ,
Like oil and filter change cooling water and the big important one change an impellor , have a rough idea what the belt tension is cleaning of exhaust elbow , air filters and so on .
None of these jobs are that hard .
Buying tools to do these job cost but it's a one off cost plus a lot of tools you should have on board anyway .
We not talking adjust tappers,overhead cups or enjector tips which do need a bit more know how.
There are courses you can take or better still ask another boatie to show you .
If you can't be bothered to learn how to look after your engine , then dont complain when you get ripped off.
By the way I do think 500e is too much ,
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
You don't seem to understand that employing a man even in a one man business costs and those costs are amortised over the whole business so that in his hourly rate there is something for Insurance, Pension, workplace rates/rent tools that he uses and a host of other things. That's why Joe Bloggs who is paid €30 is charged out at €60/hr
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Have looked at about six secondhand boats in quest fora new sailingboat.Afterseeingthe engine run I have been looking at access to the bits that will need maintaining or checking .So far I have run into fuel tanks impossible to get to,exhaust systems requiring a midget or small child to access.In general filters have been accessible..Itscertainlysomething to bear in mind if not totally fit .Crouching Dow or working upside down to get at the impeller in last boat and fuel lines in a locker again very difficult to reach.Sometimes paying someone to do the work is the only way .
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Could not agree more. Just checked when I had an engine recommissioned after long term storage 3 years ago. 3 hours labour - drive van to boat get aboard, change all filters and oil, remove and inspect impeller, test coolant, check all connections and controls, rig up water supply start and run. £46 an hour plus materials and VAT. That was a Nanni (and Yanmar) dealer. I emptied the tank and put in new clean fuel. Engine performed faultlessly during buyers delivery trip from Poole to S Wales. Should say that engine was almost new - less than 30 hours when laid up.
Spent half a lifetime teaching management accounting and advising on setting up good internal cost systems to ensure that chargeable hours are correctly costed and monitored.
pandos
Well-Known Member
Having employed many men for many years I fully understand the costs and the value of oppertunistic work than can be done with no increased cost in overheads, and which can be very rewarding for the employer...the employee probably still gets little better than trades man's rates...
joe blogs probably only gets about 15 quid per hour not 30....but I agree being charged out at 60...
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
One of the things about maintenance and boat ownership is to do it when the boat is tied up alongside or out of the water. Also arrange the systems so they are maintainable. Changing fuel filters impellers and alternator belts when you are on the water and in need of the engine running is not the best of ideas
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
Whether that man is working on someones boat or sitting on his arse because there is no work for him to do he is still costing the business his hourly chargeable rate is based on what hours he is reasonably expected to be earning money actually working, it may be 85% of his paid hours it may be more or less but that's how it is worked out.
You seem to be thinking that when he has covered his annualised costs his employer should let him do your work for free, it doesn't happen like that.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
I always change the oil & filters just before lift out. It enables me to warm the oil to make it easier to suck out. When changing fuel filters I like to change these before lift out & check the engine is running OK with no leaks so that at the start of the new season she starts at the press of the button. I do it with a warm engine so that the engine is starting from warm to save trying to start a cold engine with the possibility of some air in the fuel line.
Of course I still run it again on dry land to run some fresh water, then anti freeze ,through the sea water & exhaust system, but that is done with some tubs of water filled from the ships freshwater system which I drain down at the same time.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
Did I get ripped off .
We in the Netherlands and since we brought this boat the furler at times would stick partly coming out or going back in,
Basically the Halyard is trying to wrap it self around the furler
We don't have a bosun chair on board this boat and I been trying to buy one at every chandler we came across have come up with nothing ,
All that's needed is a restrainer to stop this happening .
Cut long story short , it was only a matter of time before it got totally jammed and no amount of letting a bit out then pulling a bit in was going to the job so it was a warp around job .
Saturday morning we call at a marina that had a rigging shop .
Rigger when up and sorted it out and I ask if he could fit a restraint eye , this is Saturday morning remember ,
After a bit of puffing he agree , his boss ask me to go to the office to settle the invoice ,
I'm expecting a 200 euro bill the last I brought a restraining eye was £60 and that was some years ago .
So you can understand my delight ?? when the bill was €120 .
He even apologize but it's Saturday and our guy wants to go home .
I think I got ripped off , NOT .
We in the Netherlands and since we brought this boat the furler at times would stick partly coming out or going back in,
Basically the Halyard is trying to wrap it self around the furler
We don't have a bosun chair on board this boat and I been trying to buy one at every chandler we came across have come up with nothing ,
All that's needed is a restrainer to stop this happening .
Cut long story short , it was only a matter of time before it got totally jammed and no amount of letting a bit out then pulling a bit in was going to the job so it was a warp around job .
Saturday morning we call at a marina that had a rigging shop .
Rigger when up and sorted it out and I ask if he could fit a restraint eye , this is Saturday morning remember ,
After a bit of puffing he agree , his boss ask me to go to the office to settle the invoice ,
I'm expecting a 200 euro bill the last I brought a restraining eye was £60 and that was some years ago .
So you can understand my delight ?? when the bill was €120 .
He even apologize but it's Saturday and our guy wants to go home .
I think I got ripped off , NOT .
Supertramp
Well-Known Member
For me the real question is the quality and extent of the work done. Is a basic service after 2 years ashore enough? A good service of the heat exchanger, check and change of primary fuel filters, proper check of engine mounts and alignment would be worth paying for but only if done properly.
I'm in the "more I know about the engine myself the better" camp. But I would pay happily for real expertise (and tools) when needed, for any part of the boat.
I'm in the "more I know about the engine myself the better" camp. But I would pay happily for real expertise (and tools) when needed, for any part of the boat.
The Real Flipper
Well-Known Member
That sounds like an idea worth investigating.
I wonder how much it would cost to ship the boat on a truck from Zeeland Netherlands to Amsterdam.
Then I don't need a skipper. I can learn on the inland waters, and hire a sailing instructor for a day, and wing it from there.
And I can take my time and do this work myself and learn my engine better, which I want to do eventually anyway. And I think I can manage with the prop shaft seal (stuffing box?) myself. It doesn't look especially complicated either. As long as those allen bolts come out ;-)
If the truck transport is cheaper than the shop quote, it's win win.
I'll look into it.
Right. I should be able to do the work itself. For both safety and the amount of money it will save me in the long run.
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
The truck quote will have 4 figures in it and that's not including the lifts at both ends.
You have much to learn grasshopper
pandos
Well-Known Member
thats not what I am saying or thinking....this is oppertunity work that would not be available if the OP was in a position to do the work himself.
Silly to suggest it should be done for free, but it need not be charged at that rate...the materials are probably not 100quid.. 400 quid for labour to change the oil and filter the anode the coolant and the tranny fluid in a small engine!..
The quoted price is high for the amount of work involved..a practiced mechanic would do that work in an hour 2 at most. I have done that work myself and watched mechanics in yards do it in similar times..
mikegunn
Well-Known Member
With respect, I beg to differ. I don’t think that 500 Euro will buy many labour hours from todays main car dealers. They all seem to be well North of £100/hr.
Mike
TNLI
Well-Known Member
Depends on the charge for the Volvo engineer to drive to and from the boat at the same rate as a good marine engineer charges, which is often around the 50 quid or euros per hour, so 100 for travel, 100 to 150 for parts, leaves 300 for doing the job. So the question is, will it take 5 hours plus one for lunch or dinner to do the job ??
If they clean out the heat exchanger, along with every item in the engine service list, then the estimate or quote might be good if the engine access is a real PITA, and they need to use another person to hang onto their legs whilst the fit the fuel filter.
If they clean out the heat exchanger, along with every item in the engine service list, then the estimate or quote might be good if the engine access is a real PITA, and they need to use another person to hang onto their legs whilst the fit the fuel filter.
