Very engaging Youtube interview with Dick Beaumont on what makes a Bluewater boat

[siwhi]

Yes, it ticks all the confirmation bias boxes going, but it is a very engaging interview with Dick Beaumont of Kraken Yachts on what makes an ideal Bluewater boat. He is articulate, engaging and speaks from experience. No doubt some of his comments will reignite the well rehearsed arguments on boat design, but whatever your preferred flavour of boat, this is worth a listen:

 

[Chae_73]

He's pretty clear about his views on keels and rudders...

 

[roblpm]

Does Shrimpy qualify?

 

[Chae_73]

Anyone know how much a Kraken 50 costs?

 

[jordanbasset]

Anyone know how much a Kraken 50 costs?

Back in 2019 it was £800,500
Kraken 50 - Yachting Monthly

 

[dunedin]

He's pretty clear about his views on keels and rudders...

It is of course pure sales and marketing material for the yachts they build

 

[siwhi]

It is of course pure sales and marketing material for the yachts they build

Well yes, but it's how you frame it. Chicken and egg. Maybe they build yachts like that because they believe they're the best design and build for bluewater sailing.

 

[Chae_73]

Agreed it is a sales piece, although how many YouTube sailing nerds have £1m+ to burn on a new yacht is an interesting question.

 

[pyrojames]

If I had the money....

But then again, it doesn't have enough varnish for me!

 

[Sandy]

Where are all these boats where the keels have fallen off?

 

[Koeketiene]

Where are all these boats where the keels have fallen off?

Bottom of the ocean? ?

 

[pyrojames]

Where are all these boats where the keels have fallen off?

Often found floating bum up, Bullimore, Drum, Cheeky R, or sunk. Was Dinelli one of them?

 

[siwhi]

Total keel loss and immediate inversion of the boat is fortunately rare. More common however is smacking into a bommie, rock or just a heavy grounding having got the maths wrong on depth of water over a spit, or from a dragging anchor and getting beached. This can cause considerable damage, and an encapsulated keel provides better protection in these not completely uncommon circumstances. There are many coral atolls with beached wrecks on them that have had their hulls punched through by the keel. But yes, many "standard" production boats sail tricky waters each year without incident.

For me the rudder discussion is more relevant. I've known (ie acquaintances) at least 4 bluewater boats which have had fairly serious rudder issues, and all of them were blade/spade rudders. One of them caused the loss of the boat off Niue in big seas. Repeated heavy wave action flexed the rudder stock causing knocking and damaged the bearing causing flooding. Another was apparently due to a difference in opinion between Jefa and Hanse on electrical bonding of the rudder and resulting galvanic corrosion causing a partial loss of steering control (they made it safety to port). The others just caused expensive delays and some serious scares to their crews.

I've also come across rudder damage caused by backing up to a shallower than expected quay, causing moderate GRP damage to the rudder, and by letting go of the steering wheel when reversing causing the rudder to kick over and damage the quadrant (both charters). Both things which would probably only cause light - or no damage - in many more solidly built skeg hung rudder boats with a rudder foot. Coincidence perhaps with the rudder design, and of course skeg hung rudders can have their own issues, nothing is perfect. There is a wide mix of rudder designs amongst bluewater cruisers, and I would go so far as to say spade rudders are in a minority for bluewater cruisers in many parts of the world, (though this is changing as newer design boats and cats become more popular and affordable), so the fact I've come across a reasonable number of issues with them makes me a little cautious.

The point he makes well in the interview is that their (Kraken) design is about reducing or mitigating risk systematically on a boat designed for a particular purpose. The trade off is of course, cost.

 

[Chae_73]

On one hand, as an engineering solution, bolting a heavy metal keel to a GRP hull has obvious limitations.

On the other hand, a huge number of boats have been produced in this way and the number which have suffered catastrophic keel failure is small. Very small.

So I'm slightly conflicted about it. I look at how Kraken are making their hulls, keels and rudders and it looks good, from the point of view of avoiding catastrophic failure.

Whether it's necessary for the use case you have in mind is a different question.

 

[dunedin]

Often found floating bum up, Bullimore, Drum, Cheeky R, or sunk. Was Dinelli one of them?

None of course cruising yachts but racing yachts. Would Kramen win many prizes under IRC, I suspect not?
Other than a well known Oyster, not aware of any keel issues in 50foot plus pure cruising yachts (i.e. in the Kraken market segment).
Lot of nice blue water boats like Discovery, Contest etc etc already available

 

[Sandy]

Often found floating bum up, Bullimore, Drum, Cheeky R, or sunk. Was Dinelli one of them?

All those examples were or had been racing.

I don't see any statistical evidence for Disk's statement that lots of sailing yachts lose their keels, if there was Lake Solent would be awash with them.

I'll need to look at his product, but am a huge fan of Boreal.

 

[Laminar Flow]

On one hand, as an engineering solution, bolting a heavy metal keel to a GRP hull has obvious limitations.

On the other hand, a huge number of boats have been produced in this way and the number which have suffered catastrophic keel failure is small. Very small.

So I'm slightly conflicted about it. I look at how Kraken are making their hulls, keels and rudders and it looks good, from the point of view of avoiding catastrophic failure.

Whether it's necessary for the use case you have in mind is a different question.

I should like to note here that the moment boats had external ballast, including Colin Archers, it was bolted on.

On the other hand it is also obvious that a deep keel with a short root makes for certain engineering challenges, particularly with ground contact.

 

[dom]

Ahh, the “great circle of forum life”. As one MAB/AWB thread dies , another is seamlessly born.

This time by a firm comically punting a “zero keel” but with no watertight bulkheads creating survivable space to protect against serious hull damage!

Let’s see how long Kranken Yachts survives ! ?

 

[dunedin]

On the other hand it is also obvious that a deep keel with a short root makes for certain engineering challenges, particularly with ground contact.

Just like they said when planes moved from biplanes with wire stays to monoplane with no stays. Fortunately there are engineers in the world. And not many stayed biplane these days.

And let's not forget, the only catastrophic keel failure in a large pure cruising yacht that I am aware of (the Oyster) it was not a bolt on keel that failed - it was the GRP keel and hull structure that failed.

 

[Sandy]

Let’s see how long Kranken Yachts survives ! ?

Having had a look at the website, they are not the type of vessel I'd buy.