Snuffers

[ifoxwell]

The boat is a new to me Sun Odyssey 34.2 and to be honest I wont be doing much racing however I figure this is the forum for the answer I'm looking for.

I'll be mostly single handing, and I'm comfortable flying the kite on my own, but this boat comes with both a cruising chute and a conventional kite all packed in nice new snuffers. Now I've always regarded these as an unnecessary complication, more to go wrong etc etc but before i give up on them before I even start, what do those of you that have tried both have to say.

Are snuffers a great idea or am i better off just doing things the way Ive always done them?

 

[MikeBz]

Ooh, you've gone upmarket I use a cruising chute with a snuffer on our SO32. In lightish winds and flat water it makes things easy, in other conditions I wouldn't be bothering with the kite. I would be happy to use it singlehanded with the autohelm on if plenty of empty safe water around (in case the autohelm throws a wobbly).

 

[flaming]

I've done quite a few miles on boats with snuffers, and a lot of shorthanded sailing (either delivery or doublehanded racing) without them. Mostly on boats bigger than your SO 34.2.

In my opinion snuffers offer no handling advantages that good technique can't replicate, and have the very distinct disadvantage that to snuff or deploy you have to be on the foredeck. Quite how if you're singlehanded you're supposed to be simultaneously unsnuffing the kite and trimming the sheet as it fills is something that no snuffer devotee has ever been able to explain to me...

If you're already happy flying kites without them, then I can't see any reason to use one.

 

[MikeBz]

In my opinion snuffers offer no handling advantages that good technique can't replicate, and have the very distinct disadvantage that to snuff or deploy you have to be on the foredeck. Quite how if you're singlehanded you're supposed to be simultaneously unsnuffing the kite and trimming the sheet as it fills is something that no snuffer devotee has ever been able to explain to me...

We sail 2-up with my not-particularly-sailor-wife steering when I'm unsnuffing/snuffing the kite. Effectively I'm singlehanding with a human autohelm. I get her to steer almost dead downwind and unsnuff the kite with it hidden behind the mainsail with as much sheet on as you can get with it in the snuffer. Once it's unsnuffed (which I can do from the cockpit if I want) then sheet on a bit and get her to head up. I guess it would be just as easy going up with a bag that clips on the rail but (a) I don't have one and (b) pulling the snuffer down and then dropping the sausage seems a lot easier than controlling a drop/bag-it operation with a single pair of hands would be.

 

[flaming]

We sail 2-up with my not-particularly-sailor-wife steering when I'm unsnuffing/snuffing the kite. Effectively I'm singlehanding with a human autohelm. I get her to steer almost dead downwind and unsnuff the kite with it hidden behind the mainsail with as much sheet on as you can get with it in the snuffer. Once it's unsnuffed (which I can do from the cockpit if I want) then sheet on a bit and get her to head up. I guess it would be just as easy going up with a bag that clips on the rail but (a) I don't have one and (b) pulling the snuffer down and then dropping the sausage seems a lot easier than controlling a drop/bag-it operation with a single pair of hands would be.

But you don't drop and bag at the same time... You drop down the hatch and bag at your leisure. In a cruising context, assuming your halyard is led aft, you can handle the entire drop without leaving the security of the companionway.
Quite why people prefer in a cruising context a device that leaves them on the foredeck trying to snuff the kite if it's all going a bit wrong, instead of stood securely in the companionway is a mystery to me...

 

[ProMariner]

Best thing about snuffers, they protect the expensive sail during the hoist and drop. Racing boats have everything nicely taped up, bungeed, and rounded off, and even then have to send their kites off to the sailmaker once or twice a year, cruising boats tend to be more full of snags.

You can run your snuffer control lines through blocks and back to the cockpit, if you wish.

Also, easier when short handed gybing to snuff, gybe, gybe pole, un-snuff.

Best thing since sliced bread, once you have worked out the process and snags, I find top down furling more of a faff.

 

[doug748]

...........
Are snuffers a great idea or am i better off just doing things the way Ive always done them?

Give them a try, I don't like them for singlehanding. I inherited two as well. They sold very quickly and got I got a good price.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

There are snuffers and there are snuffers. Some of the one made by sailmakers without much experience of using them were (are) terrible.

Etienne Giroire founded ATN in the 80's as the kit he'd used racing was pretty duff. All our boats were equipped with his snuffers as standard and they worked well.

However . . . I had one with us on our longest trip, but found after a year or so cruising, that I actually preferred to do as flaming said, and douse it into the companionway.
I did make a little 'drogue on the free end of the spinnaker halyard, so you chucked it over the stern, cast it off the winch completely, but the sail then came down slow enough to get it all in without touching the halyard again.

 

[Rappey]

Seems another thread where you either like them or dont , so its down to what works for each person?
I recently got a cruising chute with snuffer.. Absolutely love it. simple to deploy single handed and simple to retreive without any danger of it going over the side, getting wet or wrapping itself around the mast !
Ive not tried one without though....

 

[greeny]

I've done quite a few miles on boats with snuffers, and a lot of shorthanded sailing (either delivery or doublehanded racing) without them. Mostly on boats bigger than your SO 34.2.

In my opinion snuffers offer no handling advantages that good technique can't replicate, and have the very distinct disadvantage that to snuff or deploy you have to be on the foredeck. Quite how if you're singlehanded you're supposed to be simultaneously unsnuffing the kite and trimming the sheet as it fills is something that no snuffer devotee has ever been able to explain to me...

If you're already happy flying kites without them, then I can't see any reason to use one.

Unsnuff the chute then trim the sheet. Never had a problem doing it this way when single handed.
Of course I fully understand your point about snuffers complicating the process and I've done it both ways many times. Now I'm getting less agile and need a "get out clause" in what I do when sailing, I find using a snuffer suits me.
This is of course using my cruising chute when single handed, don't fly the spinny any more when alone.

 

[Lightwave395]

I have a 40' boat with a masthead rig and large kites. I use an ATM snuffer and it works great, dump the sheet, down it comes easily, no problem.

 

[Cariadco]

Sailed with snuffers for years, and the only real issue I've had is sometimes in light winds, when gybing, you have to drag the 'snuffed' sock around the forestay, to the downwind side.
If you dont do this, and say the wind gets up and you need to douse, the whole shebang jams on the top and you end up hand dragging the sail, and the snuffed sock down onto the deck.

 

[ifoxwell]

OK thanks for all the feedback guys. I guess I'll give them a go first then decide

Ian

 

[RupertW]

But you don't drop and bag at the same time... You drop down the hatch and bag at your leisure. In a cruising context, assuming your halyard is led aft, you can handle the entire drop without leaving the security of the companionway.
Quite why people prefer in a cruising context a device that leaves them on the foredeck trying to snuff the kite if it's all going a bit wrong, instead of stood securely in the companionway is a mystery to me...

Because the entire cabin from forecabin back to main hatch is a dry domestic area which must never ever have a wet or salty sail in it, or heaven forbid any ropes. For a lot of cruisers including me that division of domestic and sailing keeps everything in its place at all times in good and bad weather, so all beds remain made up and off watch crew isn’t disturbed or alarmed by saily stuff. It’s all about keeping adrenaline levels low and guests happy to come again.

For me unsnuffing from the foredeck for asymmetric is easy - I lead the sheet forward to the mast through a jamming lever and after a rapid unsnuff I haul in the sheet like crazy until it has tension, then walk back to the winch in the cockpit and trim it. The autohelm does the rest of the work. I don’t fly a symmetric any more and do regret that but if I get the right crew sometime I might and we would just decide to abandon the rule and haul it down under the boom and down the hatch (I’m used to the letterbox technique from crewing on racing boats in recent years but don’t really like it).

 

[lw395]

I'm ambivalent about snuffers.
But in my view their main good point is not the 'snuffing', it's taking the potential drama out of hoisting and setting a big kite, shorthanded with inexperienced crew. Some people get terribly put of kites before it's even hoisted, when it fills half way up.
Also being able to snuff the kite, put a cross on the chart, use the loo, make tea, gybe and unsnuff on the other tack has its pluses for passage making.

 

[Birdseye]

The boat is a new to me Sun Odyssey 34.2 and to be honest I wont be doing much racing however I figure this is the forum for the answer I'm looking for.

I'll be mostly single handing, and I'm comfortable flying the kite on my own, but this boat comes with both a cruising chute and a conventional kite all packed in nice new snuffers. Now I've always regarded these as an unnecessary complication, more to go wrong etc etc but before i give up on them before I even start, what do those of you that have tried both have to say.

Are snuffers a great idea or am i better off just doing things the way Ive always done them?

Like you my boat came with snuffers. After the first few attempts to use them I put them in the garage loft. Just too many bits of string to get tangled and I am far from convinced that they made life any easier. I certainly wouldnt use one on a cruising chute

 

[Hadenough]

I have a massive cruising chute and would not be without my snuffer. 20mins brainwork at the start of the season sorting out the lines and you are sorted.

 

[Daydream believer]

I have a 64M2 cruising chute & a Hyde snuffer with GRP mouthpiece. Soon after use the rigging wore through the light cloth where it rubbed at the masthead between shroud & GRP. I had to dismantle & re stitch it all.
I found standing on the foredeck looking up at the snuffer dangerous & that i was likely to fall in as I became dizzy looking up. Hoisting it is a pain as it sags all over the place. Then when I unsnuffed for the first time , the mouth piece decided to swing & smash the steaming light because I had to have the downhaul a bit slack to allow me to reach the mouthpiece.
I have never really managed to get the first bit out of the snuffer easily as there is a lot of cloth to pull through the mouthpiece. So I have to manually grab it & pull it free. Then when it is at the top it is a pain to get it started again on the way down.This is because it is all stuffed up tight. If it is not then the head of the chute has to be down a bit which makes it unstable. Sods law always dictates that the down haul line always seems to be on the leaward side of the sail so makes it harder to pull down. It is a job reaching over the side of the boat to grab it as well if I do not tie the bottom of the loop down.
All in all it is lighter & quicker & safer to do the whole operation by hoisting straight from the bag working the winch in the cockpit then lowering from the cockpit under the boom. I have a long adjustable downhaul & extra long halyards so I do not have to go forward to adjust immediately if busy. It also involves less trips to the bow. & the halyard is worked from the cockpit anyway.
I worked as foredeck crew on race boats every weekend for 10 years. I used to be pretty niffty with a kite & blooper. But this snuffer thingy is just a death trap. Especially 40 years on.

 

[Muddy32]

I must say it was very much easier when we were allowed to stop the chute before launching. We also normally altered course to downwind and lower in the lee of the mainsail. often by tripping the guy at the pole. Now of course we can letterbox it.

 

[Laser310]

I've never been a fan of snuffers - mostly because of their habit of swinging around, which sometimes looks rather dangerous. I have concluded that in many cases.., it's just better do get rid of the snuffer and do a normal douse.

However, I have also noticed in photos of superyachts, that they sometimes use snuffers, and wondered how they managed to control them when they are much bigger and heavier, and going much higher up.

I recently did quite a long passage on a pretty large yacht, with nearly all of the crew drawn from the superyacht world.

When running heavy things up the rig, that might swing around potentially damaging the rig, or tossing someone trying to control it off the boat.., they use what they call a "tracer line". Maybe it's common, but I have sailed a lot, and raced a lot on many different boats, some of them pretty big, and I hadn't seen it before, but it works brilliantly.

The tracer line can be a dedicated line.., but I imagine you could also use a spare halyard. The tracer line rus down from the top of the rig. It gets secured to a padeye somewhere on the foredeck, and the other end gets tensioned with a winch. Then the heavy thing that needs to go up has something like a carabiner on it, which is put on the tensioned tracer line so it can slide up. Typically this will be the metal fitting at the top of a furled headsail.., say a Code 0, or an A3. On big boats, these furled headsails are really heavy, and can swing quite a bit on the way up before they are tensioned, especially in big waves. But, sliding up on the tensioned tracer line, they are completely in control. Once it is up, the tracer line is eased and attached at the botom of the mast. When the sail comes down, the tracer line is re-positioned, and the furled sail comes down the tracer in complete control

I didn't see it being done with a snuffer.., but i imagine it could be.