GGR 22

[zoidberg]

I asked, "what does astro-nav only add to the race?" It might be "a skill" but a very minor one in the context of the race. All it does is give the skipper a position

Well, that's an opinion. And you're entitled to express it. Just as others are entitled to agree or disagree....

Some derive deep personal satisfaction from having proved to themselves they have the seamanship 'nous' to have acquired that additional complex skillset and proved it on a successful ocean crossing. That's their entitlement.

 

[savageseadog]

Well, that's an opinion. And you're entitled to express it. Just as others are entitled to agree or disagree....

Some derive deep personal satisfaction from having proved to themselves they have the seamanship 'nous' to have acquired that additional complex skillset and proved it on a successful ocean crossing. That's their entitlement.

"Satisfaction"? I would have thought accuracy, speed and safety are vastly more important.
It's not an entitlement. If they want to take part in the race they have to abide by the daft rule that they can't use GPS. Yes, it's a skill but so is playing the the Ukulele, about as relevant to modern seafaring.

 

[capnsensible]

"Satisfaction"? I would have thought accuracy, speed and safety are vastly more important.
It's not an entitlement. If they want to take part in the race they have to abide by the daft rule that they can't use GPS. Yes, it's a skill but so is playing the the Ukulele, about as relevant to modern seafaring.

So you can't do it then. ? ? ?

 

[savageseadog]

So you can't do it then. ? ? ?

My personal usage is irrelevant but I could if I wanted to but opt to use better technology. Why doesn't the GGR force competitors to use astrolabes, they are more traditional? Sextants are new tech relatively, electronic navaids go back to WW2 as far as I know.

 

[capnsensible]

My personal usage is irrelevant but I could if I wanted to but opt to use better technology. Why doesn't the GGR force competitors to use astrolabes, they are more traditional? Sextants are new tech relatively, electronic navaids go back to WW2 as far as I know.

The race uses the widely available instruments from 1968. That's the whole point really.

I appreciate you have no time or interest in the race so I'm puzzled as to why you want to criticise so much those that are.

Irrelevant is a good word, isn't it?

 

[zoidberg]

Sextants are new tech relatively, electronic navaids go back to WW2 as far as I know.

You know that famous 'put down' by Ygritte to Jon Snow, in 'Game of Thrones'.....

 

[capnsensible]

In other news, no movement from the grounded yacht I've heard of?

Light winds across the fleet, spread out now by almost 600 miles has slowed things. Perhaps, in view of the nascent hurricane that looks like forming near the Cape Verdes might not be a bad thing.

 

[dunedin]

Rules written by sailors with vastly more experience at sea than probably nearly everyone on here.

I think it's great that people are prepared to push the boundaries of human endeavor.

Voluntarily.

The race in itself might be a worthwhile endeavour - but it was a “sailor with vastly more experience“ who I noticed first raised concerns about the addition of these bizarre detours close inshore for pure media / commercial reasons.
If I recall correctly, it was Skip Novak who wrote a column in Yachting World - and raised well reasoned concerns about the rule change which will bring the yachts close inshore at Cape Town - deviating from the original route (and for the wrong reasons).
He raised specific points about the likely risks due, if I recall correctly, the tides, shoals and weather in the particular location, which voyagers round the Cape would normally seek to avoid.
As somebody who has sailed the Southern Ocean perhaps more than any other, and lives and bases his Pelagic adventures business out of Cape Town, I think he has a lot more experience than the race organiser (as well as any posters on here).

 

[capnsensible]

Then I wish them luck and fair winds.

I see that Skip Novak runs astro courses.....

 

[Blueboatman]

The race in itself might be a worthwhile endeavour - but it was a “sailor with vastly more experience“ who I noticed first raised concerns about the addition of these bizarre detours close inshore for pure media / commercial reasons.
If I recall correctly, it was Skip Novak who wrote a column in Yachting World - and raised well reasoned concerns about the rule change which will bring the yachts close inshore at Cape Town - deviating from the original route (and for the wrong reasons).
He raised specific points about the likely risks due, if I recall correctly, the tides, shoals and weather in the particular location, which voyagers round the Cape would normally seek to avoid.
As somebody who has sailed the Southern Ocean perhaps more than any other, and lives and bases his Pelagic adventures business out of Cape Town, I think he has a lot more experience than the race organiser (as well as any posters on here).
[/QUOTE]

abso-f-in-lutely.
As one who read Moitessier et al as a kid for an insight into a sound mindset for safe offshore singlehanded sailing , I remember his admonishing that above all things bad at sea , currents against prevailing winds, plus wind over tide plus cross seas plus. shoaling depth made for the perfect worst combo. I think he specifically mentioned the Aguilas current and the Cape environs .
Works for me.

Written by a man who was already a bit of a legend in French sailing I think , with a big, heavy steel vessel and a meditative mindset and a deep respect for the sea , sailing solo without electronics .

 

[dunedin]

Then I wish them luck and fair winds.

I see that Skip Novak runs astro courses.....

My point is nothing to do with GPS or sextants - it is about distorting the course away from the original into dangerous inshore waters, purely for commercial / media reasons.

 

[capnsensible]

I wonder if the organisers and entrants know?

 

[zoidberg]

I see that Skip Novak runs astro courses.....

Would that mean I'd have to hold my sextant upside-down to get a Polaris shot for latitude....?

 

[Rappey]

I think it's an incredible race . Even more impressive doing it without GPS.
I certainly couldn't do that.

 

[capnsensible]

Would that mean I'd have to hold my sextant upside-down to get a Polaris shot for latitude....?

I begin with the sextant upside down to get any star!

 

[capnsensible]

My point is nothing to do with GPS or sextants - it is about distorting the course away from the original into dangerous inshore waters, purely for commercial / media reasons.

Have you actually looked at Moitissiers outbound course? The one that they are ......following?

He went there twice, the second time after he left the race and decided to continue on to Tahiti.

 

[flaming]

Rules written by sailors with vastly more experience at sea than probably nearly everyone on here.

I think it's great that people are prepared to push the boundaries of human endeavor.

Voluntarily.

It's not really pushing the boundaries of human endeavour when it's just recreating what was done in 1968 though....

I have nothing particularly against the concept of the GGR, and I think the principal of "their game, their rules" applies. I also vaguely know Simon Curwen, from racing against him when he had a J105, and am utterly unsurprised to see him taking an early lead.

It does make me uneasy though, and especially the gates.

 

[capnsensible]

I quite understand people's position on this. However the entrants have gone in eyes wide open. Who are we to criticise something we cant/ won't do?

I understand the sentiments in this:

“The Golden Globe Race is a game!” Jean Luc VDH 2019

I might not agree with all of it, but it's not my call.

Mebbe because I've seen some close up, mebbe because I've done some ocean sailing, sometimes in unpleasant weather, I have more empathy. Dunno.

But it's not for wussies.

 

[dunedin]

Have you actually looked at Moitissiers outbound course? The one that they are ......following?

He went there twice, the second time after he left the race and decided to continue on to Tahiti.

Another bizarre aspect of this weird race - as surely the track they should be comparing to is that of the winner, RKJ on Suhali ?
Why focus instead on the track of somebody who decided the whole concept of the race was madness and decided to abandon and go cruising elsewhere? Or perhaps this is commercially inspired again, as Moitissier was French (and a great sailor, bit not even a finisher in the original race)

Although, as noted earlier on this thread, the original race embraced a wide range of new and experimental designs - including the latest multihulls and latest production GRP bilge keelers. Ironically none of the original entrants would likely be permitted types of boats as not matching the narrow minded rule of the current one.

 

[Rappey]

The ghost track is of the fastest boat that would have won rather than the one that won by default . I can see some logic in that. Last race had the track of rkj
Maybe someone decided boats up to 1988 with long keels were the most seaworthy and strongest giving an added safety factor ? They are the least likely to suffer rudder problems due to objects in the water and no chance of encapsulated keels falling off. The rest being down to the skill of the skipper, and luck.