yanmar GM10 wont start

Caraway

Well-known member
Joined
11 Aug 2019
Messages
6,019
Location
England
Visit site
Post #8 seems relevant. ;)

Richard
Except you were suggesting using a screwdriver or drift. Not knowing how adept the OP is, the tap on the rocker arm delivers the impact where it is needed and not on the valve cap (collar) or collets, which would not necessarily move the valve stem. As I am sure you will agree.
 

RichardS

N/A
Joined
5 Nov 2009
Messages
29,238
Location
Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
Visit site
If the valve is stuck that may very well free it. BUT, it may also shift the stem guide, and, as the original post implies, the engine has been rotated with the start motor a bent pushrod may be on the cards
The valve stem guide will not be dislodged by tapping the valve stem downwards. I'm guessing that the GM10 is an interference design so damage might be a possibility. However, there is nothing to lose by proceeding as suggested in post #8.

Richard
 
Last edited:

Tranona

Well-known member
Joined
10 Nov 2007
Messages
40,871
Visit site
Then his problems are just beginning. I always try the least invasive and most likely solution first. It it is just a stuck valve, it may free. If not ... onward Horation.

I just, in search of a light clacking noise in my MG engine, ended up replacing a piston and conrod. Not absolutely essential, but once you know it's there.... I enjoyed the work.

engine-ready02.jpg
Brings back (un)happy memories. Little tinkle from the engine one evening leaving work - sounded just like pinking. Nothing obvious wrong with top end (only about 3000 miles into a brand new unleaded head). Head off, still nothing, perfect bores. So out it came one Christmas/New Year. broken ring was on the last piston that came out.
 

RichardS

N/A
Joined
5 Nov 2009
Messages
29,238
Location
Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
Visit site
Except you were suggesting using a screwdriver or drift. Not knowing how adept the OP is, the tap on the rocker arm delivers the impact where it is needed and not on the valve cap or collets, which would not necessarily move the valve stem. As I am sure you will agree.
Errrr .... the mallet is used to knock the valve stem which stands proud of the collets so you won't be hitting those. If the valve gear has not been removed, as I specifically referred to, then you will obviously need to tap the rocker as there is no other way to tap the valve stem. The screwdriver is for levering the valve up if you do get a bit of downward movement. Hence my use of the term "up and down with a little WD40".

I'm sure you will agree that this is the best way to proceed. :)

Richard
 

179580

Active member
Joined
19 Jun 2020
Messages
230
Visit site
The valve stem guide will not be dislodged by tapping the valve stem downwards. I'm guessing that the GM10 is an interference design to damage might be a possibility. However, there is nothing to lose by proceeding as suggested in post #8.

Richard
Really depends on how hard it is hit and how much it has seized, agree a light tap may free it. Bear in mind that the engine has been turned on the start motor, if the valve is seized in the guide probability the piston has already smacked the valve head compounding the seizure or not. Would seriously suspect a bent pushrod.
 

pvb

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
45,604
Location
UK East Coast
Visit site
Brings back (un)happy memories. Little tinkle from the engine one evening leaving work - sounded just like pinking. Nothing obvious wrong with top end (only about 3000 miles into a brand new unleaded head). Head off, still nothing, perfect bores. So out it came one Christmas/New Year. broken ring was on the last piston that came out.

When I was very very young, I had a 1949 MG TC. I arrived home one evening with something of a clatter coming from the engine. I confidently said to my father "Reckon I need to adjust the tappets". He replied "Reckon you need new big end shells". He was right. The beauty of that car was you could drop the sump and get to things without even jacking the car up.
 

Caraway

Well-known member
Joined
11 Aug 2019
Messages
6,019
Location
England
Visit site
Errrr .... the mallet is used to knock the valve stem which stands proud of the collets so you won't be hitting those. If the valve gear has not been removed, as I specifically referred to, then you will obviously need to tap the rocker as there is no other way to tap the valve stem. The screwdriver is for levering the valve up if you do get a bit of downward movement. Hence my use of the term "up and down with a little WD40".

I'm sure you will agree that this is the best way to proceed. :)

Richard
I am sure you are absolutely correct, as always. I am not in the slightest bit bored.
 

earlybird

Well-known member
Joined
18 Aug 2004
Messages
3,880
Location
Cumbria; U.K.
Visit site
As has been pointed out. The symptoms are no compression and air/oil ejected from the inlet. Occam's razor folks!
Tele-diagnosis is full of speculation, but I wouldn't get too hung up on a stuck inlet valve. The OP has been dosing the cylinder with oil, and normal valve events have the inlet opening before TDC. At low cranking rpm there's plenty of scope for oil in the cylinder to be blown through the inlet.
Since the engine can be turned over by rotating the alternator, compression would appear to be hopelessly poor.
I can't see any alternative to a head removal job at least.
 

179580

Active member
Joined
19 Jun 2020
Messages
230
Visit site
Tele-diagnosis is full of speculation, but I wouldn't get too hung up on a stuck inlet valve. The OP has been dosing the cylinder with oil, and normal valve events have the inlet opening before TDC. At low cranking rpm there's plenty of scope for oil in the cylinder to be blown through the inlet.
Since the engine can be turned over by rotating the alternator, compression would appear to be hopelessly poor.
I can't see any alternative to a head removal job at least.
So he says excessive tappet clearance is apparent on the inlet valve, so we must reasonably speculate that we have a seized inlet valve or a possible bent push rod or indeed both. The valve overlap will only be a few degrees and the total lack of compression with the emission from the inlet tract should indicate a lack of seal.
 

DownWest

Well-known member
Joined
25 Dec 2007
Messages
12,983
Location
S.W. France
Visit site
Might be corrosion on the exhaust valve seat stopping it closing. Had this with a 1GM. Pulled the head and had the seat and valve replaced.
If needed, I happen to have the head, as we replaced the donk with a 1GM10 for other reasons (bore damage).
 

179580

Active member
Joined
19 Jun 2020
Messages
230
Visit site
I don't understand why this seems to be a common theme on this thread. Why not see if it's a sticking valve first as checking that is en route to head removal ..... if that is ultimately what is needed. :unsure:

Richard
Because the original post states that oil has historically been needed to increase the compression to assist start. It is then a clue to underlying issues. The cause now may be indeed that a valve is sticky, or the pushrod is bent given that the post states excessive tappet clearance. My best guess that the underlying history suggests badly pitted seats or a ring/cylinder issue.
 

RichardS

N/A
Joined
5 Nov 2009
Messages
29,238
Location
Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
Visit site
Because the original post states that oil has historically been needed to increase the compression to assist start. It is then a clue to underlying issues. The cause now may be indeed that a valve is sticky, or the pushrod is bent given that the post states excessive tappet clearance. My best guess that the underlying history suggests badly pitted seats or a ring/cylinder issue.
I suspect that the oil might be functioning as "easy start" to start the engine rather than sealing the bore but, either way, I would still check for a stuck valve before rushing to remove the head as it's part way through the same process.

Richard
 

B58

Member
Joined
31 Oct 2006
Messages
122
Location
Bucks
Visit site
Its 99% a bent rod, its usually caused by water Hammer. Did you have any periods of long cranking? you should crank an engine longer than ten seconds.
The rod is bent through water being pumped through the elbow and filling the exhaust until it runs back into the engine.
You must turn the seacock off when having starting issues.
 

DownWest

Well-known member
Joined
25 Dec 2007
Messages
12,983
Location
S.W. France
Visit site
Its 99% a bent rod, its usually caused by water Hammer. Did you have any periods of long cranking? you should crank an engine longer than ten seconds.
The rod is bent through water being pumped through the elbow and filling the exhaust until it runs back into the engine.
You must turn the seacock off when having starting issues.
I think you are refering to 'hydraulic lock'? This one does not sound like a bent rod, as virtually no compression. So likely a stuck valve in some way. If the rod was bent enough to give no compression, it would be banging the block. I had that with a new Vetus(Mitsubishi), Still had compression, but was 3mm down on TDC and touching the block.
And I don't go along with Richard's comment of the oil being added to help starting acting as easy start. It needs to be atomised, unlikely with a bit of 20 40 squirted in the intake. That works to seal worn rings/bore.
 
Top