Yachting Monthly on the Ball...
- Thread starter Nautorius
- Start date
FullCircle
Well-known member
Pleased to say that Boatsandoutboards.co.uk regularly email their advertisers warning of this very thing....
ari
Well-known member
Not only are they several years out of date, they've also got the details wrong.
Normal practice is to send the cheque for a few grand too much and ask the seller to use the extra to pay the shipping company (which is of course a mate of the fraudster).
Seller banks cheque, sees it in his account so pays shipper, then bank inform him a few days later that cheque bounced and he's out of pocket by the shipping amount.
Very rare (as far as I know) for them to get the boat as unless they move extremely fast, the cheque would bounce first, plus it means someone physically getting involved (ie turning up to take boat) and the potential for boat (perhaps still in transit) to be found.
Normal practice is to send the cheque for a few grand too much and ask the seller to use the extra to pay the shipping company (which is of course a mate of the fraudster).
Seller banks cheque, sees it in his account so pays shipper, then bank inform him a few days later that cheque bounced and he's out of pocket by the shipping amount.
Very rare (as far as I know) for them to get the boat as unless they move extremely fast, the cheque would bounce first, plus it means someone physically getting involved (ie turning up to take boat) and the potential for boat (perhaps still in transit) to be found.
clivew05
New member
Yes this vrey thing was attempted with me for my Caravan which I had for sale - an "agent" from Spain emailed me saying that he had a buyer who was very intersted and was preparred to pay the asking price by certified cheque ... the agent would then ship the caravan to spain to his client and every one happy ... Several questions were asked - and the agent was very prompt in replying to me on them --- my final question however went unanswered - I asked what "bank" the buyr banked with so that I could check with my bankers to make sure that his banks cheques would be accepted ... days went by and nothing - then I got a reply saying that the agent had forwarded the question to the buyer - a week went by and nothing ...
I emailed again and the email bounced back with account no longer valid!!!! I tried several times over the next week but always the same the emails bounced back invalid user ....
Fortunately I did not get caught out - but since then as the caravan is still advertised I get th occasional email from an "agent" all different addresses - but now do not respond at all .... always from abroad mind you ..
So yes BEWARE ......
Clive
I emailed again and the email bounced back with account no longer valid!!!! I tried several times over the next week but always the same the emails bounced back invalid user ....
Fortunately I did not get caught out - but since then as the caravan is still advertised I get th occasional email from an "agent" all different addresses - but now do not respond at all .... always from abroad mind you ..
So yes BEWARE ......
Clive
capnjack
New member
Quote from Yachting Monthly: "The cheque is stolen or a fake but clears.
The boat is delivered and disappears.
The forgery/theft is discovered and the cheque subsequently bounces."
Unless things have changed in the last few years, cheques are legal instructions and if cleared cannot later bounce. If the money is paid, but the transaction is fraudulent, this becomes a legal matter for the law to define if fraud has taken place. So don't know where they got this from.
What Ari and Seawings have said makes a lot more sense to me. Good that you have aired the scam again though.
The boat is delivered and disappears.
The forgery/theft is discovered and the cheque subsequently bounces."
Unless things have changed in the last few years, cheques are legal instructions and if cleared cannot later bounce. If the money is paid, but the transaction is fraudulent, this becomes a legal matter for the law to define if fraud has taken place. So don't know where they got this from.
What Ari and Seawings have said makes a lot more sense to me. Good that you have aired the scam again though.
103denby
New member
I have a friend who sold an old vw split screen and was caught out by this. the cheque had cleared in his account as normal, it was over a week before it was collected for export but several weeks later he was informed by the bank that it was stolen.He lost the car and all the money!!!
I,m sure that the owner of the cheque must be in on the scam as well but no way of proving.
My moto CASH IS KING
/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I,m sure that the owner of the cheque must be in on the scam as well but no way of proving.
My moto CASH IS KING
/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
capnjack
New member
In this case the cheque did not bounce after it had cleared. The bank must have reclaimed the money that had been paid out, there is a difference. As the responsible party they should have been accountable for accepting a stolen cheque for clearance.
There are lots of cases where people just give up and don't argue the point because of bad advice or lack of time or money to pursue a case. If Gludy had just given up and rolled over to have his tummy tickled, he would have lost an awful lot.
I do agree though that cash is king and the old old adage that posession is 9/10's of the law. It's the arguing afterwards that can make or break a point.
There are lots of cases where people just give up and don't argue the point because of bad advice or lack of time or money to pursue a case. If Gludy had just given up and rolled over to have his tummy tickled, he would have lost an awful lot.
I do agree though that cash is king and the old old adage that posession is 9/10's of the law. It's the arguing afterwards that can make or break a point.
ari
Well-known member
The problem is that the bank show the funds in your account as soon as you pay a cheque in. If that cheque is then rejected by the issuing bank then the funds are withdrawn.
This is how the scam works (and why YM are wrong in their description) as they rely on a supposed overpayment being due to the shipper and the seller seeing the funds in his account and transferring this imaginary surplus to the shipper (in reality someone in cahoots with the fraudster) before the bank pull the funds from his account.
It staggers me that in this computer age banks work in this way, but there we are.
This is how the scam works (and why YM are wrong in their description) as they rely on a supposed overpayment being due to the shipper and the seller seeing the funds in his account and transferring this imaginary surplus to the shipper (in reality someone in cahoots with the fraudster) before the bank pull the funds from his account.
It staggers me that in this computer age banks work in this way, but there we are.
FullCircle
Well-known member
Check with your Bank.
You will funds that come in from outside the UK can be bounced up to 6 months after the transaction, and there is diddly squat you can do about it.
You will funds that come in from outside the UK can be bounced up to 6 months after the transaction, and there is diddly squat you can do about it.
capnjack
New member
You are absolutely right Ari, funds show on the account therefore some people assume clearance. Also agree that its about time banks came into the computer age, things haven't changed much since I was in the City in the 70's.
And yep, Full Cirlce, again its buyer beware. Funds can show, but not be cleared from abroad, don't need to check with the bank to know that.
My opinion, for what its worth, only accept cleared funds and don't assume cleared until you have written authority and I don't mean from a statement. Cheques should be finished with now anyway, whats the point of them, they only confuse things. Even some Bankers Drafts and Building Society Cheques that used to be deemed as cleared funds have been stolen with alerts put out for business's being told not to accept some of them.
And yep, Full Cirlce, again its buyer beware. Funds can show, but not be cleared from abroad, don't need to check with the bank to know that.
My opinion, for what its worth, only accept cleared funds and don't assume cleared until you have written authority and I don't mean from a statement. Cheques should be finished with now anyway, whats the point of them, they only confuse things. Even some Bankers Drafts and Building Society Cheques that used to be deemed as cleared funds have been stolen with alerts put out for business's being told not to accept some of them.
ari
Well-known member
Yup, a stolen or fake Bankers Draft won't be honoured, and I have heard that Building Society cheques can be stopped (by claiming it's been lost or stolen).
Once upon a time you could phone the issuing bank to check on the validity of a Bankers Draft but nowadays you'll struggle to get through to the actual branch (as opposed to a call centre) and even if you do you're likely to be told that it's a "customer confidentiality" issue and therefore they won't tell you.
Great eh?
Once upon a time you could phone the issuing bank to check on the validity of a Bankers Draft but nowadays you'll struggle to get through to the actual branch (as opposed to a call centre) and even if you do you're likely to be told that it's a "customer confidentiality" issue and therefore they won't tell you.
Great eh?
AdeOlly
Active member
At least with bank drafts and BS cheques you can phone the issuing branch and check they are valid. I've done this twice over the last few months and seems to be common practice.
