yachting magazines heading for extinction

[dylanwinter]

I would like to see a bit of compassion for the sailing magazines and the people who work on them.

I think that the magazines face a real problem. The world is getting faster and it takes them ages to get from word-processor into print. These words I am writing now will be on the forum within seconds of me pressing the send button. My films take overnight to upload - then they are away. A blog takes seconds.

The news pages might just get to print within eight weeks of being written - the features take ages to crawl through the system. Commission to publication..... four months ....maybe more. They find it impossible to tell you something you do not already know.

Some of the slowness is because the advertising department want time to sell against specific subjects. They want to know months ahead what is going to be in the magazine.

When, much earlier in my glittering career, I worked on a monthly farm machinery paper called "farm contractor" much of the editorial was designed to attract the advertisers. You have seen the thing - Buyers guide to yachts under 30 feet - although in our case it was buyers guide to forage harvesters.

You can't blame them for letting the advertising department influence the editorial

- they pay the wages.


They have massive overheads - not least the whole business of transferring words in ink to paper and then getting that paper to your house. Then they have hideous overheads at kings reach tower or wherever they are based - plus all those lovely Jaguar driving IPC bosses I have known so well - the blokes who oppressed me are all living in Cheam on the fattest pensions you could ever imagine.

Then the magazines are working in a market that is being hammered by other media.

At one time if you wanted to sell a boat without giving a percentage to a broker then the only option you had was the classified section of PBO or Yachts and yachting.

Now you can reach everyone in the country through boatsandoutboards for free.

They also have small operators like me nipping at their heels. My website brings in about £400 a month in adverts for RYA powerboat courses (on my website heaven forefend) and insurance companies on the small adsense blocks.

There are some brilliant bloggers out there - all earning dribs and drabs of money

Gavin Atkin at in the boatshed - http://intheboatshed.net/ - he posts new stuff several times a week and he has just published a fascinating item about an uffer fox designed flying life boat.

and there is John Vigor - http://www.johnvigor.com/Blog.html - a clever, witty erudite expat hack sailing a small boat on the North West Coast of the states - he posts three times a week. Golden prose flows from his keyboard.

Thene there is traceability of advertising spend.One of my subscribers clicked an ad - mainly to show his support for my enterprise - and saved himself £50 off his boat insurance. He was as pleased as punch, as were, I assume, the insurance company who would have known exatcly where that sale came from. Tracking the value of a magazine article is a very dark art indeed.


That advertising spend on my website is coming straight out of the pockets of the sailing magazines.

My overheads are my sons bedroom while he is at University, a bit of electricity and one heck of a lot of my time. If I was an IPC hack I would, quite legitimately, expect to be paid a living wage for every hour I sat at my computer - and expect a canteen - Christmas party and a pension.

So forumites - lets see a bit of sympathy for the hacks on the sailing mags. They are well meaning intelligent and knowledgeable people but are almost certainly heading for extinction.

So buy one today, or even better take out a subscription. Help to save an endangered species.

Dylan

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

A guy on R4 said he thought within 7 years there would be no paper format newspapers.

No idea who he was or if he's right, but food for thought.

 

[prv]

A guy on R4 said he thought within 7 years there would be no paper format newspapers.

People said the same thing about TV vs radio, and video rental vs cinema, and no doubt radio vs books and many other things. There will be big changes, driven by the forces Dylan describes, but to say that "Medium X will be completely eradicated by Medium Y" has historically been a pretty good way to be proven wrong.

Pete

 

[dt4134]

So forumites - lets see a bit of sympathy for the hacks on the sailing mags. They well meaning people but are almost certainly heading for extinction.

So buy one today, or even better take out a subscription. Help to save an endangered species.

Dylan

Don't think the sympathy vote is the way to go. The magazines need to provide something that appeals for the money they charge.

I haven't bought a magazine for about two years now. I stopped slowly bit by bit. A couple of week's ago I wanted something to read when faced with a long winter night on the boat on my own. I looked in the local shop and they had each of the magazines. I looked at the covers, some of the things appealed, then I just decided the articles probably wouldn't match the hype and I just walked away.

You can't blame the internet for that as I don't have it one the boat. I've bought one or other of the magazines too many times on the strength of a feature only to find something that I could probably have rattled off myself. It's a bit like food on a plane (when you used to get it), the menu looks good but then it arrives.

The magazines have a market which I guess is those new to boating. For some reason they don't seem to be interested in reasonably experienced yachtsmen. They are not newspapers and as you say the idea of covering news as a key element of their appeal has been overtaken by the internet. They have to take a long hard look at themselves and decide what they want to be.

So here's some idea of what would appeal to me:

I'd like to see more articles of the depth and coverage you get in Professional Boatbuilder but covering all aspects of sailing. Yes maybe they still need some shallow articles to appeal to dilettante yachtsmen (or even newbies who don't want to be daunted) but if all articles are like that that's the only market they'll appeal to.

I think we'd all agree that you need a huge amount of knowledge to be a skipper, so try to cover that rather than getting the same old subjects out each year like digging out the same old christmas lights for the tree.

I read a French magazine once (very difficult as all the rude things my French teacher said about my ability were true) but it was better. One thing I really liked was that they had a monthly almanac. Ideal for the sextant dabblers who don't want to buy a full almanac each year. And to pre-empt arguments about the cost, if the UKHO try to charge too much buy it from the French themselves, the French mags can afford it.

I think you're right though, if they don't do something they'll fade away.

 

[Sans Bateau]

A guy on R4 said he thought within 7 years there would be no paper format newspapers.

No idea who he was or if he's right, but food for thought.

Back in the early 90's I was selling PC's, that was at dawn of computers sending messages to each other, within the same network, let alone the WWW.

It was said then by many,"this will see the paper free office", still waiting!

On the subject of Dylans post, he has several very good points. But if there were no YMthly or PBO, then you would have to pay to subscribe to the forum, like many national newspapers are now doing. Aint no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[robp]

A guy on R4 said he thought within 7 years there would be no paper format newspapers.

No idea who he was or if he's right, but food for thought.

Part of my job is to place print ads. I'm aware of all media, new and old. It might be under pressure but I still don't think that electronics will actually completely replace magazines in print.

And now for the October 1987 weather forecast.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

People said the same thing about TV vs radio, and video rental vs cinema, and no doubt radio vs books and many other things. There will be big changes, driven by the forces Dylan describes, but to say that "Medium X will be completely eradicated by Medium Y" has historically been a pretty good way to be proven wrong.

Fair point but then CD's killed singles, LPs and cassettes stone dead. Floppy discs have gone. So I guess it can happen.

Which isn't to say I agree with what the guy said. I still found it an interesting statement to muse over for a while.

Personally I will stop buying the 10/12 newspapers I buy a year the day I buy a smart phone.

I suspect Mags are slightly different and will survive on 'look and feel' presenting good writing and good photos.

 

[prv]

if there were no YMthly or PBO, then you would have to pay to subscribe to the forum

I don't buy this. The Web is awash with free forums on all subjects, and they are not all spinoffs of some business. Fundamentally it is not a hugely expensive thing to operate.

I'm not denying that we'd be in trouble if the YBW forums were shut down tomorrow, but that's more because of the critical mass of people and archives and google-juice. It would take a very long time for an independent replacement to collect sufficient momentum, especially if this forum disappeared abruptly with no opportunity to leave "signposts" to a new place. What I'm saying is that being sponsored by a magazine publisher is not the only way that something like these forums could have come about.

Pete

 

[Boo2]

A guy on R4 said he thought within 7 years there would be no paper format newspapers.

When did he say it ?

They've been predicting the end of the newspaper for years now but they still struggle on. It's definitely easier to read a paper paper cf an electronic one IMHO, so I think they'll be around for a while if not in the same numbers as currently.

My previous hobby was toy aeroplaning and when I started that at the age of 13 or so there were 3 toy aeroplane mags in the UK :

1. Radio Control Models
2. Radio Control Models & Electronics
3. Aeromodeller

Now in this internet age there are many more, including :

1. R/C Model World
2. Radio Control Models & Electronics
3. AMI (incorporating Aeromodeller)
4. Model Helicopter World
5. RC Jet International
6. Quiet & Electric Flight International
7. Flying Scale Models
8. Radio Control Rotorworld

The R/C world has more than its fair share of web forums too, which seem to be quite well populated. So I think that paper magazines and electronic equivalents can live hand in hand. For the meantime anyway...

Boo2

 

[BurnitBlue]

A guy on R4 said he thought within 7 years there would be no paper format newspapers.

No idea who he was or if he's right, but food for thought.

Should he eat his words or his hat?

 

[snooks]

Fair point but then CD's killed singles, LPs and cassettes stone dead. Floppy discs have gone. So I guess it can happen.

Are Mp3s killing the CD? Or is there still a market for something physical to hold onto?

I'm sure Mp3s have had an impact on CD sales, but people still buy vinyl, and I'm sure people will continue to buy CDs.

Will we still be buying magazines? I like to think so, but even if a magazine isn't a physical pile of bound paper, the content of the electronic version will still be required, and I don't see IPC giving that content away for free.

I found it impossible to get a copy of Yachting Monthly this year as I was cruising around north west Scotland, so I had no way of obtaining the information/stories/news that is usually from the magazine, and if that's what the future has in store, it's not great to be honest.

 

[snooks]

A guy on R4 said he thought within 7 years there would be no paper format newspapers.

So what am I going to use to light the fire or protect the work surface when I'm painting?

Have you tried getting paint off an iPad?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

When did he say it ?

Sorry Boo. No idea. Less than 6 months ago I think, but really can't give enough detail for your to chase it up and find out if my memory & hearing are correct, and if he was someone in a position to make an informed assessment..

Having said that, surely someone else on ybw listens to "Today" and would remember it?

 

[prv]

It was said then by many,"this will see the paper free office", still waiting!

For what it's worth, my office is pretty much paper-free. The only dead-tree stuff I can see around this open-plan office is printed books (textbooks etc), and personal jotting / doodling paper / notebooks on people's desks. Nothing gets passed around, sent out, or received in paper form - not because it's somehow "banned", but because it would just seem like a somewhat eccentric thing to do.

There is a printer, but my visits to its little room are so infrequent that I always have to ask the secretary nearby for the combination, which has usually changed in the meantime.

I guess I think of this as normal, but maybe it's not.

Pete

 

[sarabande]

it's unlikely that the printed market will cease, but it will almost certainly contract and rationalise. You only have to look at IPCs home pages to see how fragmented the many markets are: Gardening for Left Handers, Basket Weaving Underwater for Irish Divers, Monthly guide to New Laid Eggs, etc.

http://www.ipcmedia.com/brands/

Continuation of glossy mags for the leisure sector is almost assured, but we have seen in many (far too many) threads, comment that the sailing/boating mags are out of date, poorly written, inaccurate and not tightly focussed on what people want to read.

Adverts and advertising seem to impact upon editorial policy, and repetitive material is far too frequent.


Adjacent to my desk are shelves with all the PBO mags from the very start No1 to 1973 (when I realised that I was just collecting paperwork and not inspiration)> Those early magazines ' spoke' to me as a buyer. The modern range doesn't even raise any 'must have' feelings even when bored in an airport.

Consolidation ? Would you buy a revised, amalgamated magazine ? Yes. There seems to be a division between boats of =<£50k, and over. If the sail and power titles amalgamated around that division, and charged say a £5 for 12 issues a year, linked to the beginning of each month, and really uptodate (other sectors manage it, so why can't IPC Leisure ?), I'd buy.

Dylan is right, though. The present system of creation, production and distribution is a dinosaur.

 

[photodog]

People say that the newspapers etal are "Still struggling on".....

Go and look at the profits of most publishing companies.... they had a blip last year... but in fact most make good healthy margins... IPC included. Last year, despite the recession... Associated Newspaper recorded their second highest profits of all time.

There will always be a demand for good writing.

I know that all the TV and Internet bods would love to see them all killed off... but in fact they have a unique strength... teh cost of entry to compete is very very high... so as long as people want to be entertained and read, they will be around..

Versus the internet were the cost of entry can be very low.. so the threat to existing internet models and even I would suggest broadcast television, is quite a bit higher.

The rumours of the printed press's demise is greatly exagerated.

 

[sarabande]

Snooks

"I found it impossible to get a copy of Yachting Monthly this year as I was cruising around north west Scotland, so I had no way of obtaining the information/stories/news that is usually from the magazine "

No electronic sub, then ?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Are Mp3s killing the CD? Or is there still a market for something physical to hold onto?

I'm sure Mp3s have had an impact on CD sales, but people still buy vinyl, and I'm sure people will continue to buy CDs.

Will we still be buying magazines? I like to think so, but even if a magazine isn't a physical pile of bound paper, the content of the electronic version will still be required, and I don't see IPC giving that content away for free.

I found it impossible to get a copy of Yachting Monthly this year as I was cruising around north west Scotland, so I had no way of obtaining the information/stories/news that is usually from the magazine, and if that's what the future has in store, it's not great to be honest.

I'm not that good at predicting the future but if I had to bet on formats:

Survive due to look and feel:
Paper Books
Paper Mags

Die, cease, extinct:
Music CDs
Paper Newspapers

From,

Toad the Prophet.

 

[Sans Bateau]

It is still (more?) relaxing to sit with a printed mag than to be reading from a computer screen, also, you cant read a mag or forum at anchor, that is until there is a Wifi hot spot at Newtown creek, etc. Ah! Iphone & Ipad, OK, but that will depend on reception.

 

[prv]

Fair point but then CD's killed singles, LPs and cassettes stone dead. Floppy discs have gone. So I guess it can happen.

I suppose CDs did more or less kill cassettes (although I know of people who still use them in a retro / ironic / artistic kind of way, like this). But they didn't kill vinyl, they just changed its market - exactly the point I was getting at.

I'm not sure whether the analogy quite works for floppy disks. They're not different from other removable computer media in the same way that a newspaper is different from a website or a Walkman is different from an iPod, because they don't change your usage pattern. Whatever the actual device, you still stick it in the front of a computer and read and write data. Maybe going from a floppy to a USB stick is more like a magazine going from Private Eye-style newsprint to glossy - a change of format, but still essentially the same medium.

Pete