Yacht or motor boat to live on..advice for newbie?

jimmy_bobby

jimmy_bobby

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Hi all! Spent ages looking through the forum and found some really interesting stuff.

A quick bit about me and my situation and would love to hear your advice. I’m 26 and a policeman from the south coast. I have about 20k coming to me after a divorce with my wife/ex wife. I have a young daughter (3 years old). I work a lot and seem to either spend my time at work, or down the gym/swimming pool and not an awful lot of time at home (probably explains the divorce).

I have always had a fascination with boats since I was a child and a few years ago I hired a motor boat with a cabin down below to float around the Norfolk broads on for our honeymoon. So years later I’m looking at moving out of our family home (which the wife is keeping) and I’ll have about 20k to play with. I was driving past a local marina the other day when the idea came to me that living on a boat for a few years wouldn’t be such a bad idea. I’m thinking… buy a boat outright; pay maybe 3k per year mooring (at a marina right near my work), then its minimal costs for services etc. On my wages and overtime I’ll be able to do now no longer married, I should be able to save a decent amount over the next couple of years for a house, or a bigger boat! That’s my thinking anyway.

So I immediately started checking out boats online and have set myself a checklist required for it to really work:
1) It would need to be big enough to live on – at least 25 foot (30+ would be nice)
2) It would need to have a shower and toilet facility (hot water would be nice)
3) It would need to look nice - not like a floating caravan
4) It would be nice if it had a separate cabin (i.e. has a door) for the bedroom, rather than the sofa turns in to the bed, type thing.
5) It would need to have some kind of decent heating (don’t like waking up with condensation everywhere) – I’m a sensitive thing!
6) It would need to be under £20,000 and in the UK.

I would love to hear your advice as you guys have boats and have a damn sight more knowledge than me, who has zero. Do you think it is do-able? Would a yacht be better, or a motor boat/cruiser? Any suggestions on boats? Am I absolutely mad and living in a dream world?! You only live once, right?

Thanks in anticipation!

Regards
James
 
Hi James welcome. Your budget seems a tad LOW if you want to live aboard. Probably a Motor rather than sail. Suggest you go around local marinas and start to see what is available.
Would think a strapping fit chap like you would need at least 36 foot boat. Plenty around but most out of your budget of 20K. Good hunting

Peter
 
Welcome,

you should get some common sense around here .... in amongst a whole lot of other stuff!!

Click on the Boats For Sale link at the very top of the forum page, put in your price range, eg 15k to 25k and you should find a few boats which meet your accommodation requirements.

You may need to use a simple domestic heater to keep warm, and the boat might look 20 years old because it will be, but its a start.

Good luck!
 
As a complete novice, I would be definitely be looking at a motor boat (more room for length) and as you seem to be working hard already, make it a fibreglass one, not wood or steel. I reckon you should be able to get something in your price range.
OK, it's going to be old and maybe a little tatty, but amazing things can be done with paint, polish etc. Interiors can be done cheaply, with DIY stuff.
1) diesel engine(s)
2) displacement (slow) hull. None of your swish/fast flybridge jobbies. Fuel is not cheap.
3) As big as budget allows.
4) simple fan heater will do for heating if marina based, which leads on to....
5) You need to be marina based and need to find out if a berth is available in your chosen (work) area.
6) As much extra gear as budget allows, being in UK you can get lots of stuff secondhand and boat jumble stuff.
In short, go for it, but study and talk to lots of folk first.
Welcome to the madhouse!
By the way if your are mad, then so are a bunch more of us!
 
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Moto or sail

Don't know where you live, or whether it's practical, but £20K buys a lot more accommodation on a narrowboat than on a cruiser. My wife and I lived on a 43ft narrowboat, which cost less than £20K, for 5 years very happily. We now live on a 57ft barge in winter, and a sailing catamaran in the summer - but both cost quite a bit more than £20K!

Best of luck

Tony
 
Thank you all for your responses!

I hear what you’re saying about the motorboat being better accommodated for the money. But there is still something romantic about a sailing boat/yacht. It seems to carry some kind of kudos, too (not that that’s overly important to me, but a welcome bonus). I like the idea of a yacht more than a motor boat because of the future possibilities – sailing abroad (once I learn how to) and the low cost of cruising along the cost. I’ve had a look on virtually every boat sales website I could find on google and found my two favourite sailing style boats:

http://search.boatshop24.co.uk/morepictures.asp?btsrefno=15760164

http://search.boatshop24.co.uk/morepictures.asp?btsrefno=12388741


And my favourite style motorboat
http://search.boatshop24.co.uk/morepictures.asp?btsrefno=13401027

Looking at the motor boats I just don’t see them as being as beautifal as the sailing boats. I could fall in love with the two boats linked above, but the best motor boat I have found is amazing inside, size-wise, but dosent make me feel like I could fall in love with it. With that and my future aspirations to start sailing, it might be a good idea to go for something with sailing potential. Plus it would be moored up at Brighton Marina, probably. Not sure if the motorboats I could afford (river style boats) could be let loose out at sea?

Any suggestions for large sailing boats, under 20k? Thanks again guys! Love the forum.
 
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You're never going to get a concensus on motor Vs sail. It all comes down to what you really want. You are right in saying that you're mad. It's an essential pre-requisite to boat ownership.

What I would say is that boats change hands for less than the asking price, occasionally significantly less, so you can easily look at something around £25K or a bit more and offer £20K. In they end the worst that can happen is they say no.

Bear in mind that there will be additional costs. A survey for a start that will set you back at a few hundred pounds minimum. You can scimp but they are valuable in finding hidden faults and you'd need some form of survey to get insurance anyway.

Only buy a wooden boat if you are interested in wooden boat maintenance. It's a hobby in its own right. But whatever you buy will take up substantial amounts of time in maintenance anyway.

Most marinas tend not to accept liveaboards officially, but in practice they can turn a blind eye to it if your unobtrusive. They may even see an advantage in having a copper about the place.

You'll find that there is often a community in the marinas made up of liveaboards, those doing 'projects' and people who do odd jobs for owners. You'll learn a lot from them.

Insurance is another potential issue, but my insurance company for example only limits living on board when the boat is out of the water.

Presumably there is some form of police sailing club that will teach you to sail.

Don't under-estimate how cold it can get. Nor how much you time you will spend down below with the rain pouring down. On the other hand you do get more out of the good days.

I'm not a full-time liveaboard, but I do spend a lot more time in the marina than the average boat owner, so this is my view.

Best of luck.
 
Thanks JCP. I didn’t realise that the asking price was negotiable that much, that’s good to know. I have read other threads where they mention keeping a low profile and understand that. I know my local marina turn a blind eye to it and apparently do quite appreciate the security that these liveaboards bring to the place.

When you say cold, is that even with decent heaters/dehumidifiers/insulation? I am prepared to spend a few bob on kitting up the interior and am prepared for maintenance costs to the boat. It can’t be worse than the cost of refitting a brand new boiler at my house! I think my force have a dinghy sailing club up at Bexhill, so it’s an option with regards to actually learning how to sail. I may drop them an email. Thanks.
 
Do it, you have nothing to lose. So long as you're insured, and not ripped off when you buy your boat (get a thorough survey), you can always cut your losses and sell it probably for a similar price to what you paid in the first place.

If you're falling in love with sailing boats, get a sailing boat. Your heart is clearly pointing you that way.

I live on a 31 foot boat with my fiancee and a dog. You could live on a smaller boat if you're on your own.

Check out Westerlies and Hunters. Something around the 20 year old mark is potentially decent value for money and with a price that will hold. Also it's worth going for something with a decent and active owner's association. Westerly is very very good for that.

Get the RYA "buying a secondhand yacht" booklet (available from them or amazon), it's priceless.

Find out the common issues with the boat you like, and check them all out thoroughly. There are some very expensive things that need doing from time to time and it's a damn site cheaper to buy a boat that's had them done than to buy one that hasn't, and have them done.

Eg.

Westerly Centaur (probably a bit on the small side for what you're after) periodically needs (prices very approx):

New engine (£5k)
New standing rigging (£1k)
Keels removed and re-seated (£1.5k)
Osmosis treatment (£3.5k) (not _essential_ in many cases but affects price)
Headlining Replacing (£2k)

There are plenty out there with all these recently done for not _that_ much more than one with few or none of them done.

--

Showers and hot water - we have them onboard but never use them. The marina facilities are excellent, so we use those.

Heat - you will have mains in a marina - just run a thermostat controlled fan or convection heater.

Condensation - if you don't ventilate extremely effectively you will need a dehumidifier. We are managing fine without, but our heating draws in "new" air all the time, keeping our air circulated (we have an Eberspacher) - smaller boat may well not have room for one so perhaps dehumidifier essential - but they're not stupidly expensive or large.

You may well find that you can't get insurance without passing the RYA Dayskipper Theory course. Well worth doing anyway, will teach you a great deal you need to know. You'll also need to do a VHF course to get your licence.

PS. You're not mad. It's mad NOT to have adventures IMO.

Good luck!
 
If you want a liveaboard sailboat on a 20k budget then I would look at ferrocement. You will get a lot of boat for the money.

Here is one http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1978/Endurance-35-2125903/Medway,-Kent/United-Kingdom


There is another one that has more to do by the sound of things but it is a nice looking boat under sail.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=2117245&ybw=&
units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=75067&url=


Remember with boats it is a HUGE buyers market just now and Ferro boats have a bad reputation so try a really low offer to begin with.
 
jimmy_bobby said:
Hi all! Spent ages looking through the forum and found some really interesting stuff.

A quick bit about me and my situation and would love to hear your advice. I’m 26 and a policeman from the south coast. I have about 20k coming to me after a divorce with my wife/ex wife. I have a young daughter (3 years old). I work a lot and seem to either spend my time at work, or down the gym/swimming pool and not an awful lot of time at home (probably explains the divorce).

I have always had a fascination with boats since I was a child and a few years ago I hired a motor boat with a cabin down below to float around the Norfolk broads on for our honeymoon. So years later I’m looking at moving out of our family home (which the wife is keeping) and I’ll have about 20k to play with. I was driving past a local marina the other day when the idea came to me that living on a boat for a few years wouldn’t be such a bad idea. I’m thinking… buy a boat outright; pay maybe 3k per year mooring (at a marina right near my work), then its minimal costs for services etc. On my wages and overtime I’ll be able to do now no longer married, I should be able to save a decent amount over the next couple of years for a house, or a bigger boat! That’s my thinking anyway.

So I immediately started checking out boats online and have set myself a checklist required for it to really work:
1) It would need to be big enough to live on – at least 25 foot (30+ would be nice)
2) It would need to have a shower and toilet facility (hot water would be nice)
3) It would need to look nice - not like a floating caravan
4) It would be nice if it had a separate cabin (i.e. has a door) for the bedroom, rather than the sofa turns in to the bed, type thing.
5) It would need to have some kind of decent heating (don’t like waking up with condensation everywhere) – I’m a sensitive thing!
6) It would need to be under £20,000 and in the UK.

I would love to hear your advice as you guys have boats and have a damn sight more knowledge than me, who has zero. Do you think it is do-able? Would a yacht be better, or a motor boat/cruiser? Any suggestions on boats? Am I absolutely mad and living in a dream world?! You only live once, right?

Thanks in anticipation!

Regards
James
Click to expand...
Really I think your on the rebound get a flat and visit the gym boats are really time consuming.
 
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...=2117245&ybw=&

This yacht is in Birdham Pool. Dont know how old the phots are but looked in a far worse state when we were in there this summer.
Would not recommend a ferro-cement as a first purchase.

Would recommend that PC Plod gets himself down to the Library & read read read read and read again as many books as you can find on sailing & liveaboard life before committing yourself to anything. The way of life is a wonderful dream but comes with so many variables that unless you are 100% fully aware what you are getting into, can oh so easily turn into a nightmare.
Dont let that put you off. Just be aware that its not all a bed of roses.

Good Luck to you.
 
Size matters. If you're living aboard you want to be able to stand up in at least part of the boat e.g. galley/saloon. You are unlikely to achieve this in anything under 30ft.
Insurance companies in general don't give a toss about qualifications although does no harm to have them---they'd be more concerned about you living aboard,strangely!

As t being on rebound---my marriage broke up after 40 years(when I was 60) and I bought my boat to live on.Now retired ,no regrets! My grandchildren love the boat,as will your child.

As an aside,I WAS brought up with boats,but take your time, take advice and some training and you'll be fine.

Don't forget you could always get a marine mortgage,but don't get in too deep.
 
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I reckon this a doable thing for someone in your position OP, just one word of caution - you mention minmal costs for maintenance/servicing. You need to know that these costs are NOT minimal in any way and on an old boat like you will be buying they are a MAJOR expense and you will need to be pretty hands on with DIY. I burnt my fingers a bit with my first boat because I worked out every fixed expense in advance, - insurance, moorings etc etc and only allowed a min amount for maintenance. You must by now have heard the old definition of a boat. i.e. a hole in the water into which you throw money (lots)
 
Thanks for the link - I’ll have a good look. I appreciate your offer of advice.

Thanks again for you your comments. If I could respond to a few..

Captainbob – Jesus, I didn’t realise we were talking that kind of money! But, if we’re talking about your home, I guess it’s all part of the maintenance costs and still, ultimately, cheaper than a house, in the end. I am prepared to put that kind of money in to a boat that I can fall in love with and call home.

TQA – I liked your first link, lovely boat and quite spacious inside. I think I’m swaying towards fiberglas/plastic style, rather than wood because of the cost implications I’ve read about, and the ongoing maintenance etc. But what a great price.

Brian – I see where you’re coming from, but I already spend too much time at the gym already and I end up getting very annoyed with my neighbours (for the few hours I am home - I always end up listening to them argue, bang around, play music and slam doors) when I’m living in a flat, terraced house. I need a quiet, cosy, self-sufficient lifestyle. If I could have all that and fall asleep under the stars, that’s a bonus.

Sandyman – the link didn’t work. :(

Ludd – Thanks for the advice. Your situation gives me hope. I love the idea of retiring and sailing the world. Living the dream, hay? I think I’m going to try not to get a mortgage if I can help it. Part of my ‘master plan’ was to save on the monthly outgoings. I think I could always sell on whatever boat I buy in a few years and, hopefully having saved a fair bit (overtime is always there for single blokes with no home life!), purchase something much larger and more seaworthy in a few years time.

James F – Lovley boat, immaculate inside, but maybe a little out of my price range.

For the record, I know I may sound like a complete naive fool for mentioning minimal costs, but what I mean by that, is in comparison to what I’ve had to pay over the years for property upkeep, maintenance and refurb. Tens of thousands, literally. A couple of thousand every couple of years or so is not an issue.

It’s really good talking this out with you guys as I’ve now decided I do want a yacht. I would prefer it to be plastic style rather than wood (not necessarily excluding a wood finish on the interior, though) and have a better understanding of what upkeep and maintenance costs will be. Would love to hear from anyone who lives aboard full time (through winters, too)? What kind of monthly outgoings are you looking at?

Thanks again.
 
jimmy_bobby said:
It’s really good talking this out with you guys as I’ve now decided I do want a yacht. I would prefer it to be plastic style rather than wood (not necessarily excluding a wood finish on the interior, though) and have a better understanding of what upkeep and maintenance costs will be. Would love to hear from anyone who lives aboard full time (through winters, too)? What kind of monthly outgoings are you looking at?

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Re expensive jobs - just make sure you buy a boat that doesn't need any of those jobs doing, then you won't have to do them for a few years.

We're entering our second winter period aboard. Outgoings on a weekly/monthly basis (we've not done it long enough to give you annual figures) are vastly less than when living in a house. Our fuel/elec bills are a tiny fraction of those in a house. And there's no water rates or council tax either. Money spent on maintaining the boat feels like money spent on a hobby rather than on just existing. I guess that might wear off after a few years though.
 
TQA said:
If you want a liveaboard sailboat on a 20k budget then I would look at ferrocement. You will get a lot of boat for the money.

Here is one http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1978/Endurance-35-2125903/Medway,-Kent/United-Kingdom


There is another one that has more to do by the sound of things but it is a nice looking boat under sail.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=2117245&ybw=&
units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=75067&url=


Remember with boats it is a HUGE buyers market just now and Ferro boats have a bad reputation so try a really low offer to begin with.
Click to expand...

Nearly impossible to get Ins on Ferro and IF you can would be EXSPENSIVE
 
I am coming to this from a slightly different angle but the thought process might have some bearing on your position, Jimmy.
My 30 foot wooden boat presently lives on a swinging mooring. I am happy to live on-board most weekends but realise I need a change if I sell the flat I rattle around in and opt to livaboard.
The reasons are numerous, but in essence I need more space for full time living. I am happy in my own company but with a F8 blowing and horizontal rain outside, the inside of a 30 foot yacht can seem very constricting after a few days. The optimum size of boat for me would be +/- 35 foot as anything much bigger would rule out single-handed sailing.
As to construction, I have to accept that most wooden boats don't like being dried out from the inside. Additionally insulating wooden boats can lead to problems with the danger of creating damp pockets of stagnant air, so I have been looking for well-insulated steel, glass or ferro.
For as long as I am still working I will need to be in a marina for mains power and shore-side facilties. Negotiating a dinghy to get ashore before driving to the office just isn't practical, let alone getting back on board on a dark winter's night. Ditto, keeping the boat dry needs mains power... using the solid fuel stove I fire up on the mooring won't make for friendly neighbours.
All these considerations are based on the premise I will still be working. What makes the prospect more attractive is the opportunity of moving to warmer climes in the future, so I will opt for a boat with reasonable passage making potential.
I wouldn't get too hung up on the cost of maintaining a boat. Bear in mind you will be spending less time doing domestic stuff so there is plenty of scope for doing the necessary yourself instead of getting "a man" to throw money at. It's personal, but I would prefer to spend an evening with a varnish brush than watching telly.
Best of luck with the plans. From your posts it appears you are going into this with eyes open.
 
Personally i've not lived aboard yet and am still sorting out other stuff before I take the plunge but there's some good info here.

My 5p worth from my boat ownership and research is that if I had a love for wood and enjoyed the woodwork, i'd have a wooden boat as a liveaboard as they seem to keep warmer and many feel more homely inside than a G.F. boat. However, I also accept the work involved (having owned one partially wooden one) and for me ultimately it would get me down. There is no denying that a Wooden boat looks absolutely fantastic if your eyes are open on the maintenance front.

On the purchasing front, personally i'd do my homework as much as possible and once i'm pretty much satisfied, i'd take the plunge. Your first boat is quite likely not to be your last boat as for me owning a boat has taught me more about what boat I want/need than all my research combined.

So my 50p would be go into it with your eyes open but don't try and get the perfect boat first time. The most important part is actually doing it. :)
 
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