Yacht or motor boat to live on..advice for newbie?

[jimmy_bobby]

Some fantastic advice here. Thank you all for your time and wisdom!

Ludd – That’s not a lot of money at all. No problem. I think I’m set on a wooden interior. Veeery romantic! Funnily enough I saw You’ve Got Mail on cable telly the other night and noticed when Tom Hanks splits with his partner, he goes and stays on his yacht. It’s exactly the kind of yacht I’m looking for. Perhaps, subconsciously, I fell in love with the boat, and that lifestyle, from the movie, many years ago… Odd.

Djbreeze – thanks for your comments. And I’m glad you mentioned the Jeanneau Sun. What an awesome boat. It looks like it should cost twice as much, at least. Exactly what I’m after! I’m liking that style exactly. I have to say, it’s the best boat so far – found this http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/MjEzMzUwNn5DQ1RSMDE=-Jeanneau_Sun_Dream.html the interior looks mint, as does the exterior. Cant fault it at all. Love the layout inside and the wood finish. Perfect. I love the fact it has two separate cabins for sleeping quarters. Im just shocked it’s so cheap.

Saxonpirate – I really appreciate your detailed post. You know your stuff. Some really good advice there. I think your advice and others on here as made me really question everything and narrow my search criteria to the point where only a few boats are left. I must admit I’m rather excited and a little inpatient now that I have to wait two more months until I’ve got the dosh to go out and buy one of these beauties.

Can hardly wait. All I keep thinking about is bloody boats! My colleagues are getting a bit bored of it now, I think. Aside from thinking I’m mad, of course.

Brian – Are the noises the kind that you can get used to? Or do they really get on your nerves? Usually I fall asleep with headphones on anyway. I rarely can’t sleep – so knackered from work (or crisis management, as I call it).

 

[Fire99]

Can I throw a little issue in here. We seem to be concentrating on Sailing Yachts and from the OP's post i'm not sure he's done any sailing.

So Jimmy Bobby have you tried the 'rags n sticks' approach?

The reason I ask is that after owning Motorboats for 12 years and doing a Sailing course a couple of years ago, i'm now the owner of a Sailing boat and it's a completely different kettle of fish to a Motorboat.

I know you are looking at liveaboard accommodation for your money and cost etc but ultimately you are gonna want to go places and, for some, Sailing is not for them.

It's not about speed either, it's the whole dynamics of getting places by positioning sails and using tidal flow & wind direction to your advantage etc.
Personally I love it and i'm totally hooked but some can't get over missing the 'point n squirt' ability of a motorboat.

Personally, i'd grab a few days out on people's yachts and get a feel for sailing before you make too many decisions.

Obviously if you've done some sailing and i've missed it somewhere, please ignore all of the above.

cheers,

Nick

 

[Ludd]

Can I throw a little issue in here. We seem to be concentrating on Sailing Yachts and from the OP's post i'm not sure he's done any sailing.

So Jimmy Bobby have you tried the 'rags n sticks' approach?

The reason I ask is that after owning Motorboats for 12 years and doing a Sailing course a couple of years ago, i'm now the owner of a Sailing boat and it's a completely different kettle of fish to a Motorboat.

I know you are looking at liveaboard accommodation for your money and cost etc but ultimately you are gonna want to go places and, for some, Sailing is not for them.

It's not about speed either, it's the whole dynamics of getting places by positioning sails and using tidal flow & wind direction to your advantage etc.
Personally I love it and i'm totally hooked but some can't get over missing the 'point n squirt' ability of a motorboat.

Personally, i'd grab a few days out on people's yachts and get a feel for sailing before you make too many decisions.

Obviously if you've done some sailing and i've missed it somewhere, please ignore all of the above.

cheers,

Nick

Oi, you! Time you were in bed--it's only us old buggers that don't need sleep! And why would you think he won't enjoy being wet ,miserable ,cold and seasick???

 

[Fire99]

Oi, you! Time you were in bed--it's only us old buggers that don't need sleep! And why would you think he won't enjoy being wet ,miserable ,cold and seasick???

Sorry, just having late tea. Cause us young(er) folk can still get away with it. Haha..

I know it's a ridiculous idea but thought i'd throw caution to the wind and mention it.

 

[jimmy_bobby]

You do have a point – I have never been sailing. I’ve been motor boating. I’ve been kayaking, whitewater rafting and Norfolk Broad ‘cruising’. But never sailing. If it involves getting away from land and the madness that is my professional and personal life, then it can only be a good thing. On a more serious note, I really think I’ll love it. I’ve fired off a couple of emails to my force sailing club to try and get involved. Also, there have been a couple of adverts where people have asked for crew members (fortunately some have said complete novices welcome) for short sailing adventures and I’m enquiring in to some of them.

Definitely a yacht though. Completely gone off the idea of a motor boat.

 

[Fire99]

You do have a point – I have never been sailing. I’ve been motor boating. I’ve been kayaking, whitewater rafting and Norfolk Broad ‘cruising’. But never sailing. If it involves getting away from land and the madness that is my professional and personal life, then it can only be a good thing. On a more serious note, I really think I’ll love it. I’ve fired off a couple of emails to my force sailing club to try and get involved. Also, there have been a couple of adverts where people have asked for crew members (fortunately some have said complete novices welcome) for short sailing adventures and I’m enquiring in to some of them.

Definitely a yacht though. Completely gone off the idea of a motor boat.

Well you certainly sound pretty convinced, and enthusiastic. but you don't want to suffer the old car sales issue of 'buyers remorse' if the reality doesn't live up to the dream.

Anyway a few trips out crewing should clear that one up.

 

[Ludd]

THAT's my boy! Don't listen to the woolly thinking and fuzzy logic of the dark side!

There is a section on here for crew available/wanted. Have look on there,put apost up referring
to this one, and I'm sure somebody will take you sailing.
Alternatively some sailing schools do 1day introductions to sailing. Just a day out,and no pressure.

 

[Vonasi]

Please, please, please, please, please can everybody stop encouraging people to live on boats. Every year marina's get fuller and fuller and prices go up and up. Can we all just agree to tell any newbies interested in living aboard that it's rubbish, expensive, cold and not worth thinking about.... please.

 

[Brian blue bear]

I love the noises, personally.... although I was cursing sombody for not tying thier Halyards yesterday during high winds then finding I was the culprit in the morning...., Insurance and Qualifications no Problem, Indeed I have no Qualification (except VHF Legally required for radio use), live aboard is ok but for your safty and safty of others If you sail or Motor navigation is essencial, legal or not.

 

[Brian blue bear]

What a good Idea

Please, please, please, please, please can everybody stop encouraging people to live on boats. Every year marina's get fuller and fuller and prices go up and up. Can we all just agree to tell any newbies interested in living aboard that it's rubbish, expensive, cold and not worth thinking about.... please.

Love your thinking, But every sailor I have met has a helpful selfless Personallity who has a helpful streak right through the Heart non sailors will not last long it is not 9 til 5 type persons activity It's the rich once a month or less show offs Earning Bank bonuses that run up Prices at marinas....

 

[saxonpirate]

Love your thinking, But every sailor I have met has a helpful selfless Personallity who has a helpful streak right through the Heart non sailors will not last long it is not 9 til 5 type persons activity It's the rich once a month or less show offs Earning Bank bonuses that run up Prices at marinas....

Couldn't agree more Blue Bear....

The local marina down here used to be alive with liveaboards, a real community and a lovely place to be. But a period of spiralling of house prices and city bonuses starting in the early 2000's has seen it turn into yet another overpriced, soulless "boat park".

The prices have gone through the roof, and there's a long waiting list for berths. Spanky new motor boats are everywhere (so much for global warming), and local house prices are totally out of reach of people working in the local economy/community.

Rising marina prices, have nothing to do with a few liveaboards. { Not only the UK either, it's the Med too} It's all to do with a decade of hot money.... Sad but true. There's a whole new breed of sailors/yachtsmen that have joined the game, with their brand new boats and a plenty of cash in the bank..... and the marina owners know it. (Captive Market)

 

[Fire99]

Couldn't agree more Blue Bear....

The local marina down here used to be alive with liveaboards, a real community and a lovely place to be. But a period of spiralling of house prices and city bonuses starting in the early 2000's has seen it turn into yet another overpriced, soulless "boat park".

The prices have gone through the roof, and there's a long waiting list for berths. Spanky new motor boats are everywhere (so much for global warming), and local house prices are totally out of reach of people working in the local economy/community.

Rising marina prices, have nothing to do with a few liveaboards. { Not only the UK either, it's the Med too} It's all to do with a decade of hot money.... Sad but true. There's a whole new breed of sailors/yachtsmen that have joined the game, with their brand new boats and a plenty of cash in the bank..... and the marina owners know it. (Captive Market)

Sadly i've gotta agree with you. I've been in the environment where the big money rolls (and hot footed away from it as it's not my thing) and the 'Monte Carlo effect' is alive and well in a great number of marinas where these boats see active duty about 2 weeks of the year and yep, there are plenty that get annual berthing charges into 5 figures and don't bat an eyelid.

A great gulf away from the sailing I know.

Well they say things are cyclicle and I hope things change.

That said, Marinas need money to survive and it's never cheap running a business in the UK. Those big ol Gin Palaces do bring in the income. Hopefully there is a balance to be struck where the 'have lots' and that 'have not alot' can co-exist in these places and the fees reflect that.

Anyway, back on thread, Genuine Liveaboards should be celebrated in my opinion as they bring the true spirit of boat life (and sailing) back.

 

[Troutbridge]

I've lived onboard two boats in the UK (Guernsey to be precise).
Firstly heating: Yes you need heating but you also need a cheap(ish) dehumidifier. Diesel heaters are not cheap to run, on my present boat (a Broadblue 385 catamaran) during the winter of '07/08 I was using approximately 10 litres a week. I used the heater a lot, i.e. on at 0630 for an hour, then on again at 1730 until 2200. In other words, just like central heating in a house. Obviously, used it less if I wasn't cold. Electric heaters are bloody expensive unless the marina doesn't monitor electric usage.
I understand what you're saying about budget, but I would tend to get the most modern boat you can afford (even if you need to take a marine mortgage, sounds like your salary will stand it). My reasoning is that post 90's boats have better accommodation (maybe don't sail as well, but you're going to be doing more living aboard than sailing) and the systems will invariably be more up to date. Also (dare I mention this) when you get around to inviting 'somebody back for coffee' they'll probably be more receptive to a comfortable double bunk with a separate shower/heads.
There is always a compromise to be made with sailing qualities/looks and accommodation unless you have an unlimited budget. Don't forget that your main aim here is primarily somewhere to live.
I don't know about current prices (too busy with other things, see the blog if you're interested) but I would consider a Bavaria or something similar, around about the 33-36 foot mark. Plenty plenty of room, not a bad finish and by all accounts not bad sailing machines (some will violently disagree, I'm sure). You'll need to finance the purchase but it will still be cheaper than a flat (although it will be a depreciating asset).

 

[jimmy_bobby]

Thanks for your advice, TB. All taken on board. I like your blog by the way.

 

[jimmy_bobby]

Bit of an update on my situation. I have looked at literally thousands of boats online, almost to the point of obsession. Bought a couple of living-on-a-boat/sailing books and checked out dozens of liveaboard/sailing blogs. I’ve also made contact with my forces sailing club and will be getting involved in that. I’m also still on the prowl for people planning SHORT sailing cruises, who want an inexperienced crew mate to get myself some experience (if you know anyone on the south coast – especially Brighton – who want a novice, who can tell a good story and make them laugh, than I’m their man!). Lots of homework and research from my end. I have also viewed a number of boats at the local marina – both motor cruisers and yachts.

I’ve really considered a number of things that are quite important in my life. Things like socialising (cooking dinner/family eating around the dinner table etc.), the ability to sail, comfortably, to places like France and Spain. I have considered that this boat will depreciate in value and will look dated in no time, so should be and look modern – almost futuristic - now. It should turn heads. I should make you feel like you’ve just won the lottery when you come home from work and look at it.

It should also have a motor, as well as sails – so a yacht
It should have at least two sleeping cabins – not including the galley (three would be ideal)
It should have a warm dark wood interior
It needs to have a big enough kitchen/galley area and proper cooker/oven for cooking
It should be fibreglass/plastic as apposed to wood on exterior
It should be no older than 15-years-old

It needs to be under £40,000.

The budget has doubled since my first post. A marine mortgage for a few years is looking like a viable option to get me what I really want. You only live once, right...

The best boat I’ve seen so far, that seems to meet most of my new criteria, is this beauty:

http://www.boatshed.com/jeanneau_sun_fast_36-boat-74260.html

 

[Bajansailor]

That Jeanneau Sun Fast in the Boatshed link looks rather nice - however I think that if you are going for a vessel like this, one of the Sun Oddysey range might be more suitable for cruising - the Sun Fasts are a bit 'racier'.
There is a lot to be said for a bright interior, as opposed to warm, dark (and gloomy) - especially in winter time.
A boat that looks futuristic today might look dated next year - whereas a timeless modern classic design will look good indefinitely.
Don't discount the American style of classic design - although they generally do not have 3 separate sleeping cabins within 36' of length.......
Keep on looking - there are still thousands more you havent looked at and hundreds of different classes still that you have never heard of........ don't rush it.
My apologies if a catamaran was suggested previously, but it might be worth considering / looking at a few ?

 

[Ludd]

That Jeanneau Sun Fast in the Boatshed link looks rather nice - however I think that if you are going for a vessel like this, one of the Sun Oddysey range might be more suitable for cruising - the Sun Fasts are a bit 'racier'.
There is a lot to be said for a bright interior, as opposed to warm, dark (and gloomy) - especially in winter time.
A boat that looks futuristic today might look dated next year - whereas a timeless modern classic design will look good indefinitely.
Don't discount the American style of classic design - although they generally do not have 3 separate sleeping cabins within 36' of length.......
Keep on looking - there are still thousands more you havent looked at and hundreds of different classes still that you have never heard of........ don't rush it.
My apologies if a catamaran was suggested previously, but it might be worth considering / looking at a few ?

Catamaran option in a south coast marina could mean prohibitive berthing costs.

Classic (old!) designs are more likely to produce a suitable boat in your price range,but it's difficult to be objective---it's a love t'ing!
My boat is a NAB 35( same as HR Rasmus 35 .Access to aft cabin is from centre cockpit(in rough conditions,a pain but alright in port,esp with cockpit tent up.Common layout in older boats.
You need to look at loads of designs and photos,and one may jump out and grab you!
Once you've narrowed the choices down,then start looking at examples----but learn how to walk away!




Yachtsnet is a good source of info -they leave info on even if boat sold

 

[1bobt]

Hi
A Sun fast 36 will be a bit racy and expensive to maintain, but one hell of a boat on the water ,you will need crew to get her to perform well
as said dont go for a dark interior, bright is best.

I do not think you will have any problems selling her on, if you decide on a cruiser later. Go for it
Cheers bobt

 

[V1701]

Here's one...

1995 Beneteau Oceanis 321 at Clarke & Carter, on at £42k, bet you'd get it for late 30's, looks really well cared for & nicely set up, you'd just need to add cabin heating, posssibly add some insulation to the cabins...

I wouldn't be tempted to go much bigger than about 36/37 feet, everything's bigger, heavier to handle, more expensive. Out of interest, how would a marine mortgage compare to a 20 grand loan repayable over 10 years?

Happy shopping, keep us posted on how you get on, it's a good thread...

David.

 

[billskip]

Excelent thread, read all with interest brilliant advice, after a divorce I went livaboard and enjoyed it.

One thing is for sure though as one poster said "get as big a boat as you can" because you will be suprised how they "shrink" around you over time.

Imho must be grp because least maintainance,(but still required )

very good advice on go for higher price and make low offer ie;- 25k offer 20 k

as for surveys well you can spend a lot on surveys and buy nothing, so look at all the forums and contact as many as you can that own the same type. boat you are interested in before you have survey.

I would be very suprised if one of the forumites with a sail boat down your way,
wouldnt take you out for a sail, to give you an experiance of a bit of fun. perhaps posting on skuttlebut might get you an invite. I would certainly take you but I'm not in your area.

Good luck, keep posting with your progress.