would anyone mind if we swapped from red to white diesel?

Burnham Bob

Burnham Bob

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Seems the most sensible route. Do any forumites have any real objections? Why does HMG think we are so desperate to hang on to red diesel? I'm not and would welcome other views. Maybe if we all agree, the RYA could start hassling HMG to do something rather than continuing to say red diesel is legal in the EU when obviously the rest of the EU says it's not regardless of what the small print the RYA is quoting actually says.
 
and having just read the latest RYA bit about commercial users of red diesel being in the majority in obscure locations so all you would get is red anyway, why don't commercial users get a special dispensation as long as their consumption is monitored for excess usage to stop it appearing in their land rovers?

same as inland waterways boats using diesel for heating - just apportion the duty.

I'm sure HMRC will be afraid it will end up being used on roads but how do the Belgians manage it? or do we tax diesel so highly compared to europe that they don't really worry about it?
 
I suspect you are right and that is only a matter of time before red diesel is no longer an option for the average yottie.

However I was rather disappointed to read that the whole problem with Belgium was down to the marinas lobbying thier authorities as they thought they were losing money as boats were refueling in the UK rather the Belgium. Why the average boat would undertake a 170 mile round trip (and possible burn at lot of fuel getting there and back) to save a rather modest amount at most is rather beyond me.

Of course realising the impact this would have on UK visitors they refused to accept payment for any boats staying with them :rolleyes:
 
Because we don't use our boats/engines on the roads we should be entitled to the same fuel duty discount as other UK non road users of diesel such as farmers, plant equipment operators and fishermen.
 
Burnham Bob said:
Seems the most sensible route. Do any forumites have any real objections? Why does HMG think we are so desperate to hang on to red diesel? I'm not and would welcome other views. Maybe if we all agree, the RYA could start hassling HMG to do something rather than continuing to say red diesel is legal in the EU when obviously the rest of the EU says it's not regardless of what the small print the RYA is quoting actually says.
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Just use what ever is available red or white, most of the boaties out there don't use enough to worry about the cost, be honest. So get over it people.
 
For the boat I would prefer not to use white road diesel which has biodiesel in it.


You do already (or should) pay full duty on red diesel used for propulsion. The duty break is only on the portion of fuel used for domestic purposes.
 
ukmctc said:
Just use what ever is available red or white, most of the boaties out there don't use enough to worry about the cost, be honest. So get over it people.
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Can I assume that you haven't read the news on EU countries fining you for using red?
 
Being a yottie, I wouldnt mind TBH. But I guess that many mobo drivers buying way more diesel would object. And judging by the bickering that goes on at the club when someone uses up someone else's 20p worth of leccy, there are lots of penny pinching yotties who never go abroad and would resent the extra 30p per litre even if they bought very little fuel.

For these reasons I cannto see many marinas away from the Solent putting in facilities for white diesel, and very few harbours anywhere will do so since the fishermen use a lot of diesel.
 
Bosun Higgs said:
Being a yottie, I wouldnt mind TBH. But I guess that many mobo drivers buying way more diesel would object. .
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The mobo owners should be paying full duty or close to it, they can hardly claim that any significant proportion of their diesel use is other than for propulsion.

Us yachties are pushing it even if we have heaters, as the amount of use for that and electrical generation is mostly way below 40%. Live aboards are obviously in a different category.
 
It seems to have been forgotten that a big issue at the time was that because of the far higher overheads/markup, diesel at boat fuelling pontoons would have ended up MUCH more expensive than fuel bought in cans at the local filling station.

A concern was that quite a few people would choose to fill their boats from cans rather than pay the higher price, with consequent safety and pollution issues.

By some strange coincidence (?) the 60/40 concession resulted in marina supplied diesel ending up at a surprisingly similar price to road diesel, leaving little incentive to cart fuel (in either direction).

Vic
 
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It would make better sense

dieselprices.png
but will the tax take be reduced to bring us into line with what's judged affordable elsewhere?

The fishermen would need a competitive price and that would mean red for them.

Heating and cooking would still need to be affordable - red again.

Agricultural and industrial users - red again.

Is there something wrong with supporting our boat builders by giving them assistance in their home market?
 
2Tizwoz said:
dieselprices.png
but will the tax take be reduced to bring us into line with what's judged affordable elsewhere?

The fishermen would need a competitive price and that would mean red for them.

Heating and cooking would still need to be affordable - red again.

Agricultural and industrial users - red again.

Is there something wrong with supporting our boat builders by giving them assistance in their home market?
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I'm not sure that it is supporting our boat builders - the majority of people buying big boats do so with the intention of sailing long diatance. If the disagreements over fuel taxation effectively make it impossible for us to sail outside UK waters, a lot of people will not bother to buy large boats.

We have been making active plans to upgrade to something in the mid-forty range. If it transpires that we will not be able to sail further afield than the south coast, we may well put those plans on hold - our current boat is perfectly capable of taking us coast hopping for a couple of weeks.
 
From a personal point, I dont mind too much paying road prices but I don't use a great deal, but I would still object since my boat doesn't have wheels!

Large users, particularly MoBo's would definately feel the pinch, but realistically the 60/40 split doesn't hold much water for them.

The problem is that many marinas supply a lot of commercial users and docks/harbours considerably more so. Whilst some marinas may be prepared to change to white particularly if most of their business is leisure, docks and harbours most certainly would not. The trouble is, whilst it is still legal for UK leisure to use red (in UK), no marina will change because people not intending to go abroad would re-fuel elsewhere, because the 60/40 red would be cheaper.

Ironically, Belgium are the main problem. Their argument being that they lose fuel revenue because of unfair competition. Actually road/marine white in Belgium is cheaper than UK red at 60/40 anyway.

Strangely, Belgium has the cheapest fuel (petrol and diesel) in Western Europe (apart from Luxembourg, which is basically belgian). They probably run their econonmy on fuel duty collection because they are significantly cheaper than their neighbours and gain from attracting custom from their neigbours. This is particularly the case for Luxembourg which being a small country can draw in a much bigger fuel custom from nearby countries gaining more duty by having lower prices. So much for unfair competition. Just as well Luxembourg are land locked.
 
White for me

I'm using White via Jerry Cans. If there's any white I don't use then I'll stick it in my car at the end of the season.

As a raggie I've only got a small tank so as soon as all my winter Red is used and I've used a few tanks of white I'm off to Europe. I want to cruise to Holland, Belgium and France without having to worry about being fined for something that's just way out of my control.

I also want to take advantage of nobody else from the UK being abroad and getting a choice of decent berths :p :)
 
Captain Haddock said:
I'm using White via Jerry Cans. If there's any white I don't use then I'll stick it in my car at the end of the season.

As a raggie I've only got a small tank so as soon as all my winter Red is used and I've used a few tanks of white I'm off to Europe. I want to cruise to Holland, Belgium and France without having to worry about being fined for something that's just way out of my control.

I also want to take advantage of nobody else from the UK being abroad and getting a choice of decent berths :p :)
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You and me both. I've a few litres of red in my tank and i'll be filling at Tesco/Asda marinas.
Guess If I see a brit boat in Belgium it'l be you then.
 
A view from NW Scotland

I'm not too worried about a switch to white diesel IF I can buy it in a convenient way, ie: at the marina or quay side. But in the North West of Scotland many of the harbours will most likely only sell red because their principle customers are fisherman and they aren't going to install a separate tank for white diesel, just to sell a bit to passing yachties in the summer.

On average we use between 3L and 5L per day and at least 40% of that goes in heating and generating electricity, particularly at the bringing and end of the season. So when I refuel I'm typically buying between 40L and 60L (we have a 160L tank) which is a lot to move around when you don't have a car to hand and the nearest garage could be many miles away. And this ignores the issue of how much diesel you can legally buy on the forecourt in containers.

From my point of view, because we're unlikely to cruise outside the UK, being able to buy red diesel, in Malaig, Stornaway, Ullapool, Kinlochbervie, Stromness, Gairloch etc, isn't a band solution.
 
I generally use white diesel from the local filling station onboard my yacht, it is cheaper than the red diesel from the marina anyway. I just wish I had no trace of red in my tank so I could empty it into my van in the winter.

In terms of motor boating I used to dive regularly from a RIB with twin 75HP outboards, I have been paying/contributing to the petrol that has been put into those engines for over a decade which all has road fuel tax applied. Why should diesel for boats be any different to petrol for boats?

Ross
 
Ross D said:
I generally use white diesel from the local filling station onboard my yacht
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How do you do that when cruising away from base? The idea of buying 15 galls of white diesel and transporting it from filling station to marina / harbour 2 gals at a time via Shanks pony doesnt appeal.
 
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