Wot! No GPS....?

[laika]

It seems to me that the more high-grade nav data is provided, the less thinking about options goes on. There's a lot of abdication to the instruments....

As someone who *does* have a sextant, almanac, tables and a trailing log aboard, this sounds remarkably like "tsk, kids of today...". Ability to "Think about options" is an entirely separate issue to one's choice of primary nav tools. The dullard sailor of 40 years ago whose almanac was drenched by a wave through the companionway hatch (I confess to not carrying a spare almanac) or whose trailing log was bitten off by a shark would have been in a dodgier situation than the resourceful modern navigator who, as Mark-1 and Wansworth point out can fall back on latitude by polaris and improvise a log. Moreover I'm guessing that when GPS wasn't an option there were plenty of sailors who couldn't do their sight reductions without a programmable calculator which they probably had far fewer of in reserve than the average modern sailor has GPS units.

I wholly agree that "thinking about options" is the pertinent critical skill but having that skill is not determined by use of GPS or otherwise.

 

[Tomahawk]

The lack of any obvious harness makes me feel uncomfortable in itself.

What's the point in a harnes?

If you go over the side you will simply be dragged along till you die.
There is bog all chance of hauling yourself out the water if the boat is moving above 2 knots. Even a recovery ladder in the water would be almost impossible to climb with the stern rising over waves.

 

[capnsensible]

No point worrying on passage, too late. Bad things happen because of what you did or didn't do before leaving..
(like have a boat which can function just fine when all the linked together toys go grumpy..)

Not so. You can make oodles of preparations. I have a biig list. I do lots of inspections and operations plus a sea trial. Work up not just for boat, but for crew. But there's always something you just can't predict. No point worrying about it, just deal with whatever happens. And Neptune surely has given me some tests! ?

 

[capnsensible]

In a lot of ways, I think you can make a comparison between the people that are always walking around or seated in company with an iPhone of some sort. It's the new normal. You've all seen that. Mostly unaware of what's going on around them . The people, and there are lots, that get sucked in to screen staring on navigation instruments aren't necessarily poor sailors. But not as good as those that take in their surroundings. In my opinion.

 

[GHA]

Not so. You can make oodles of preparations. I have a biig list. I do lots of inspections and operations plus a sea trial. Work up not just for boat, but for crew. But there's always something you just can't predict. No point worrying about it, just deal with whatever happens. And Neptune surely has given me some tests! ?

Disagree. 6 in a scale of 5
In a subjective universe you,(all of us) as a big boy ocean crossing skipper, are better off taking responsibility yourself for everything,. You should have spotted the dodgy kit, chafe, bad battery connection, whatever, done sorted it or have spares ready to rock.
Then least you have some motivation to do better next time. Always things to learn, blaming neptune achieves nothing.
And that word 'worry' you're fixated with doesn't really help either imho,might as well see it as a positive, learning is fun.
Personally I like John Vigors black box metaphor for probabilities, keep pushing them in your favour as much as you can, resting thing things going wrong on your own shoulders rather than neptune helps push it a bit better next time, much more positive

 

[Robin]

How people navigated without knowing to the nearest 0.05 of a millimetre where they were is something that surprises a lot of modern sailors.

I was at a Royal Institute of Navigation event about GPS and asked the question, "Can you be confident that the charts are correct, as some of them were last surveyed in 1870?", there was a confused response from the speaker.

I'm a huge fan of knowing how to do at least dead reckoning and mk 1 eyeball radar from 1st principles, that way you better understand the modern stuff and can use/interpret it better. Unfortunately few do these days. Now post stroke and living on a mobo unless the oceans shrink or we follow a tanker it is not an option to worry about. ?‍?

 

[capnsensible]

Disagree. 6 in a scale of 5
In a subjective universe you,(all of us) as a big boy ocean crossing skipper, are better off taking responsibility yourself for everything,. You should have spotted the dodgy kit, chafe, bad battery connection, whatever, done sorted it or have spares ready to rock.
Then least you have some motivation to do better next time. Always things to learn, blaming neptune achieves nothing.
And that word 'worry' you're fixated with doesn't really help either imho,might as well see it as a positive, learning is fun.
Personally I like John Vigors black box metaphor for probabilities, keep pushing them in your favour as much as you can, resting thing things going wrong on your own shoulders rather than neptune helps push it a bit better next time, much more positive

Bit of a strange sailing world you live in then. I ll stick with mine where you cannot predict for me what equipment might fail no matter how hard you try. ?

 

[capnsensible]

Much better to worry about things that might actually happen..

You do the worrying. I'll do the sailing! ?

 

[zoidberg]

I've done a whole lot of worrying in my time. Now, I've 'given it up for Lent'....

Sailing others' boats is a good way to go. I let them worry while I get on with enjoying the sail.

 

[GHA]

Bit of a strange sailing world you live in then. I ll stick with mine where you cannot predict for me what equipment might fail no matter how hard you try. ?

Not sure where you got that from....

Point is if you just blame neptune every time yo miss something you'll never learn anything. h think we are
Though suspect we're closer to agreement than you might think, every passage you learn something, every time something goes bang I doubt you actually blame neptune and disragard it completely but log it in your mind - must add double check "......" to the list...

 

[GHA]

You do the worrying. I'll do the sailing! ?

Not me that's worrying. Anyway, that's just an emotional response which guessing most skippers learn to recognize and try to keep out of the decision making process, doesn't really help much.
Though I wouldn't like to be on a boat about to cross an ocean with a skipper that wasn't a bit tense before setting off.

 

[Stemar]

Sailing others' boats is a good way to go. I let them worry while I get on with enjoying the sail.

You haven't sailed with some of the people I've sailed with. There's a reason I bring my own lifejacket and harness...

 

[zoidberg]

 

[temptress]

Assuming you are not swept overboard but are still crossing an ocean - the question then arises (sticking to the theme of the thread) - what do you do were GPS to go down. Maybe its something simple - your electrics fail, the chart plotter fails, some malicious noggin squirrels into the GPS system (and this latter will have many more implications than Covid 19 or squabbles over the South China Sea). How many who cross oceans still have HF and don't need to rely on satellites (sat phone).

How many carry a sextant, the requisite tables and know how to use them? How many have a log, speed/distance, that is independent of the main electrics - I'm assuming everyone has a magnetic compass. Does everyone carry paper charts. Does everyone assiduously keep hard copy of lat and long, seawater temperature and plot on those same paper charts? How many have a barometer.

Just wondering how far complacency has sunk in.

Jonathan

We carry and use our Sextant. On a passage over say 7 days we will often switch the GPS off and use the Sextant for a^ few days to keep up the skills. My wife and I compete the who maintains the best position. when we switch the Gps back on the one further away from our gps position has to take a forfit of somekind

 

[Kola]

Sometimes a B&W photo gives a better impression...

Same time, same camera?

 

[Mark-1]

Same time, same camera?

This photo was hanging on a wall when I was a kid, had no idea who/what it was. Never even curious about it. 30 years later I bought one of Moitessier's books and realized who it was.