Wot About The Yotties.

[nortada]

As peace breaks out in Brussels and agreement is brokered, what about the yachties?

Rather than expats who take up residence in their new country, what will be the situation of those who elect to keep their boats in the EU but retain their UK status, using the boat as a mobile holiday home moving between the EU states?

The moves between EU states is to comply with the requirement of no more than 183 days resident in a single EU state in a calendar year.

I anticipate, rather like other none EU sailors they will have to get visas to visit their boat?

Suppose the same will apply to those with camper-vans and shore-based holiday residences.

If too complicated it could wreak the tourist industries of Southern Europe.

 

[colind3782]

Glad you asked because I'm very interested too. Although not a liveaboard, I spend some 25% of my time on the boat in Spain which is on the SSR. No problems with us staying within the 183 days personal rule but I want to keep the boat there indefinitely. I've read the statement this morning and I can't find any reference to say "no probs Colin, you can keep her there as long as you like"

 

[RupertW]

We are in a similar situation with visits to the boat for between 4 and 8 times a year so far, and likely to become longer as years go by.

I don't think holiday restrictions will really matter for us personally after Brexit but any rules about British boats might.

 

[lindsay]

We will just have to wait, patiently or not. Is it not a potentially reassuring thought that a liveaboard has his home, turtle-like, on his back and can up and away in as little as minutes? If it costs it costs. There is always a price for freedom.

 

[emandvee44]

We have a similar problem with the variation that we are Spanish residents. Our boat is in Portugal (Algarve) and we had planned to bring her to a local marina in Valencia Province next year. However in the post brexit future if we are required to take her out of the EU (as other non EU flagged yachts currently have to do) then it might be better to keep her in Portugal as a trip out of the EU would be easier.

Michael.

 

[RupertW]

We have a similar problem with the variation that we are Spanish residents. Our boat is in Portugal (Algarve) and we had planned to bring her to a local marina in Valencia Province next year. However in the post brexit future if we are required to take her out of the EU (as other non EU flagged yachts currently have to do) then it might be better to keep her in Portugal as a trip out of the EU would be easier.

Michael.

As of this morning though, you are home free with full rights in perpeuity the same as a Spanish citizen which would include the right to own and keep a boat - residency is the deciding factor it seems as long as you apply by March 2019 and succeed by March 2021. I'm envious as we can't easily get residency near our boat as we only get there in the 2-3 months we are lucky enough to be able to take off work.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Unless something is sorted , it's going t be a problem for all Brits liveaboard ,
Some have already taken precaution getting Irish pass ports and Dutch . This isn't an option for most of us .
So I guess some will move out of the EU and aothers will play hind and seek .
Just wonder how many will give up and return home or put newbee from taken the plunge .
If I understand it correctly it's not the flag of the boat but the person , in which case you still be able to have the boat under SSR and be a resident of another country .

 

[Tranona]

All that has been "agreed" so far is that those Brits who are resident in another EU state on the qualifying date (presumably March 2019) will retain freedom of movement in the same way that EU residents in UK (but not seemingly have the additional rights such as those related to the rights of children).

Although it has not been discussed yet, all the noises from both sides suggest that movement for purposes other than to take up residence or work such as business or leisure will not be significantly restricted.

The position related to UK VAT paid boats has not even got on the agenda yet.

None of what has been agreed so far has advanced to a state of a treaty so it could all go out of the window in the future, particularly if Theresa does not manage to hold her warring factions together.

 

[lindsay]

By way of reassurance , I have been travelling around Europe freely (and elsewhere) collecting experiences and languages, WITHOUT PROBLEMS, since 1955, and only the last 20 years as liveaboard, by simply adapting to changing circumstances, shuffling the necessary bits of paper, actively helping authorities to tick the boxes and trying to stay abreast of developments. It has been NO BIG DEAL ( and a lot of fun) and I see no reason for it to be any different for the rest of my limited life. There is really no need to get one's proverbials in a twist, which is not to say one should not stay informed.

 

[nortada]

If I understand it correctly it's not the flag of the boat but the person , in which case you still be able to have the boat under SSR and be a resident of another country .

It is my understanding that the owner of the boat has have a UK address to have an SSR and is assumed that they are resident at that address in the UK.

However, in this context, it is irrelevant as the owner's residency governs their status in a country.

The length of time you may keep a foreign flagged vessel is the subject of another set of rules that can vary from country to country. Possibly it should be added that, currently, in many countries, these rules are nor enforced.

 

[macd]

It is my understanding that the owner of the boat has have a UK address to have an SSR and is assumed that they are resident at that address in the UK.

However, in this context, it is irrelevant as the owner's residency governs their status in a country.

Quite so. Flag state (whether via SSR or Part 1) has no bearing on a vessel's VAT status, which is the reason behind non-EU VAT-paid boats hopping out of the EU to re-set the clock. For VAT purposes, a boat's nationality is determined by the country of residence of its owner(s). (The 's' in brackets can obviously add complication.)

VAT matters haven't even been touched on in the negotiations so far. (And certainly not discussed in Cabinet, since we now know that no future Brexit scenario has :ambivalence.

 

[sailaboutvic]

It is my understanding that the owner of the boat has have a UK address to have an SSR and is assumed that they are resident at that address in the UK.

However, in this context, it is irrelevant as the owner's residency governs their status in a country.

The length of time you may keep a foreign flagged vessel is the subject of another set of rules that can vary from country to country. Possibly it should be added that, currently, in many countries, these rules are nor enforced.

I think your right in what you say ,
I may have wording my posting wrong , you could hold an Irish pass port and live in the UK in which case you can reg under SSR .and still be able to stay as long as you like in the EU , or am I wrong ?

 

[Tranona]

The length of time you may keep a foreign flagged vessel is the subject of another set of rules that can vary from country to country. Possibly it should be added that, currently, in many countries, these rules are nor enforced.

At present, the flag of registration has no direct influence over whether a boat can freely move and be kept in any state within the EU. Any restrictions are related to the status of the owner or status of VAT payment.

Non residence of the owner restricts movement; non payment of VAT (for private boats).

So a non resident can move and keep a VAT boat within the EU, even with a non EU flag, but the person's movement is limited. A resident can own a non EU flagged boat and have free movement provided it is VAT paid.

These rules are the same across the EU so do not vary from country to country.

 

[davethedog]

Well I hope it does not make much difference as we are planning to leave the UK mid 2019 for the Med and spend a few years travelling around the Med!

 

[Tranona]

I think your right in what you say ,
I may have wording my posting wrong , you could hold an Irish pass port and live in the UK in which case you can reg under SSR .and still be able to stay as long as you like in the EU , or am I wrong ?

You are right. SSR depends on residence not citizenship.

However you could still own a non EU registered vessel and still move freely provided the vessel is EU VAT paid. Good example would be the many boats that are registered in the Channel Islands.

 

[Tranona]

Well I hope it does not make much difference as we are planning to leave the UK mid 2019 for the Med and spend a few years travelling around the Med!

You are just going to have to wait until the deal is done before you know the conditions that govern your ability to do that. However don't put your plans on hold.

 

[AndersG]

All that has been "agreed" so far is that those Brits who are resident in another EU state on the qualifying date (presumably March 2019) will retain freedom of movement in the same way that EU residents in UK

What I have seen is that a UK resident in a EU state will be able to stay there but not necessarily move to another EU state.

 

[macd]

Well I hope it does not make much difference as we are planning to leave the UK mid 2019 for the Med and spend a few years travelling around the Med!

In addition to Tranona's observations, if you're planning on exploring the Med, the restrictions (if any) on your movements, rather than the boat's, will probably be the more onerous. At present a non-EU boat can have EU 'residence' in chunks of 18 months, with the clock re-settable by a fleeting visit outside the EU customs zone; this really needn't be too big a deal for anyone wishing to explore lots of new places. (Greece to Turkey is, at least, about a mile.) On the other hand, in the worst-case scenario you, the person, will be restricted to three months in the EU in any six-month period.

Brexit negotations (which so far have been about no more than reaching a threshold for fuller negotiation on three largely unrelated matters) haven't even begun to address either of these issues -- although the last one could prove to be the stickiest for liveaboards. On the downside, it's pretty much irrelevant to the lucrative holiday trade which many EU countries won't wish to harm, so don't hold your breath.

What I have seen is that a UK resident in a EU state will be able to stay there but not necessarily move to another EU state.

That seems to be the case. The European parliament’s Brexit co-ordinator, Guy Verhofstadt, identified five outstanding issues he hoped would be settled. They included this:
Securing free movement rights for British nationals in the EU, allowing, for example, a Briton in Spain to move anywhere else in the EU, rather than being tied to Spain.

 

[sailaboutvic]

You are right. SSR depends on residence not citizenship.

However you could still own a non EU registered vessel and still move freely provided the vessel is EU VAT paid. Good example would be the many boats that are registered in the Channel Islands.

Am I right in thinking , a owner with a Southern Ireland passport who happens to live in the Uk with a boat Reg under SSR ( yes I know where the boat reg don't come into it as long as it's VAT paid) will still be entitled to travel/stay/sail in the EU Will still be the same has now ?

 

[davethedog]

Guess we will just have to wait and see and go form there but still planning to leave the UK in approx 18 months!