Women and sailing

KellysEye said:
> find this thread interesting because the vast majority of cruising yachts (sail and motor) we meet are sailed by couples(husband\wife).

Same in my neck of the woods. And many of the women I know are very competent sailors, although in most cases the man is definitely the skipper.

Then again, we do see quite a lot of threads on sailing forums from men wondering why their partners aren't as keen as they are, looking for ways to entice them on board etc. The usual assumption seems to be that the accommodation, galley and heads are the key (as opposed to sailing and sea keeping characteristics etc.)

However, women skippers and all female crews are a lot less common and still often regarded as a bit of an oddity. I often have an all female crew, not because I have anything against men, but the accommodation gets complicated unless people are partners.

And there's something I would like to note and acknowledge - when I am busy working on the boat, I'm always getting offers of help from men - and they mean it. No ulterior motives, I think. I'm not a spring chicken ;) In fact, one of my male friends helped me out a lot this spring with an electrical problem I couldn't solve. That was one of my husband's "parts of ship" and I am still learning (as you may guess, he is no longer with us)

Men can be pesky, misguided creatures, but they can also be very, very kind. Did I mention, I love 'em! :)
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When I first went to sign up for Day Skipper evening classes at my local college the instructor put his pen down and sat in silence. I asked what was wrong, was the course full ? 'No, no, it's not that' he said. After a while he confessed that having women on the course was disruptive, as they often beat the men and the men didn't like it. I joined anyway obviously. I still have my final exam paper on which he wrote against my 100 % score 'I think that you are just about competent !'. To be fair he was very encouraging after he got over his initial dismay.

Later I got awarded some kind of 'pilot of the year' thing at a local sailing club. I was handed a silver trophy with my name added to the previous winners. My first name happens to be rather uncommon for a woman. Someone kindly remarked that the good thing was looking at the names in future no-one would know that a woman had won it...

That is all a good few years ago and hopefully things have moved on. Certainly most industries have realised that having people who think differently is an asset not a liability. In the past my name used to be very useful on job applications. I never bothered adding a prefix. Used to get some very dismayed looks when I walked into the interview though.
 
sandydog said:
When I first went to sign up for Day Skipper evening classes at my local college the instructor put his pen down and sat in silence. I asked what was wrong, was the course full ? 'No, no, it's not that' he said. After a while he confessed that having women on the course was disruptive, as they often beat the men and the men didn't like it. I joined anyway obviously. I still have my final exam paper on which he wrote against my 100 % score 'I think that you are just about competent !'. To be fair he was very encouraging after he got over his initial dismay.

.
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When I updated my VHF licence to DSC, the whole class but me was composed of young fishermen. Like you in your DS class, I was the only one to get 100% (to be fair, I had held a non DSC licence for decades) I don't think the fishermen were too pleased to be bested by an old gal like me :D
 
> although in most cases the man is definitely the skipper.

In the Caribbean Jane and I would take turns at immigration and customs to fill the form in and say I'm the skipper. In Grenada the immigration lady said "if you are the skipper what does he do" while looking at me. Jane said "he's my muscle" and she laughed.

One other good one was I never wore a watch so I never knew what the time or date was. I went to immigration in Trinidad on my own, Jane had gone to get local currency, there was no clock there so I asked what the time and date is - the result was a very sour response. An American cruiser behind me laughed and I was trying not to.
 
It's not just boating, it 's more or less anything that involves dirty noisy machines, or big boys toys as they are affectionally known.
 
Tammany said:
It's not just boating, it 's more or less anything that involves dirty noisy machines, or big boys toys as they are affectionally known.
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Excuse me, Sir (or Madam) I don't know if your boat is a dirty, noisy machine (and if it is, I suggest you clean it up and get a qualified person to check it out) but mine most certainly is no such thing! ;)
 
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I'm just refering to it as a moving machine. Ladies tend to shy away from such things treating them as utilities rather than things of beauty that need regular polishing.
 
I am female, so hopefully can give a better perspective on this than guys...

Times are changing. My Day Skipper Theory instructor was female, and she commented that it was perhaps the first time that there were more female than male students on the course.

People come up with all kinds of scientific-biological bases of why women will underperform in science/maths/astronauts/racing car driving/anything which you get more men at the moment. What social science actually shows is that if people go round saying these things then you get fewer women. However, if an inclusive approach is followed, women's performance and participation goes up and women turn up who can do just as well as the men (Ellen McArthur being the obvious example here).

However, I leafed through some motorboat magazine at our yacht club and was left quite agape at the blatant machismo. Sailing magazines, not so bad in this regard, but still...
 
And in terms of practical boat handling, my (male) instructor lamented that in the standard configuration of mixed sex couples, the guy would stay on the helm while the woman, despite having less strength, was sent off to do the physical stuff with lines, fenders, boat hooks and dangerous leaps (if the guy messed it up). He pointed out an example of good practice as he saw it when a boat arrived where the woman had been 'put on the helm' while the bloke skippering had decided to do the running around himself. All very well, I thought, but an assumption there - is he the skipper? Perhaps she is the skipper, ordering him about, but everyone goes on the stereotypes!
 
Until this thread I wasn't aware that not many women like sailing as most of our sailing friends are couples although not always married. My wife was a bit apprehensive at first but doing a Day Skipper practical and CS theory without me around boosted her confidence and we spend more time aboard than ashore. She'll stand night watches and do everything else except heavy sail handling.
 
Tammany said:
I'm just refering to it as a moving machine. Ladies tend to shy away from such things treating them as utilities rather than things of beauty that need regular polishing.
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"Ladies"? I'm afraid any statement that purports to encompass the "tendencies" of just over half of the entire population of the world, or even just of the UK, are ipso facto meaningless in my estimation.
 
KellysEye said:
In the Caribbean Jane and I would take turns at immigration and customs to fill the form in and say I'm the skipper. In Grenada the immigration lady said "if you are the skipper what does he do" while looking at me. Jane said "he's my muscle" and she laughed.
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So did I :D
 
Hats off to all the women sailors who've engaged openly and sometimes hilariously to this thread!

I was in a large Waterstones bookshop a couple of months ago and found myself browsing along the 'Gender Studies' shelves. I asked the young hipster assistant why there weren't any books about men there (genuine question) and he gave me the sort of look which would translate as "bloody hell, we've got a right unreconstructed nutter here!"

Making supper for my son that evening (I'm a single father who cooks, cleans, sews, monitors homework, makes dental appointments, arranges playdates with other mums, etc), when The Archers came on the radio. The episode included part of the excruciating lead-up in the Helen-Rob drama where he was controlling every inch of her life and psyche (before she later stabbed him and went to prison).

The next morning Radio 4 was on in the workshop and I found myself half-listening to a Woman's Hour special programme dedicated to this shock-horror soap opera plot. The discussion - and consensus - revolved around how evil and controlling men are, with the woman who started Shelter in the 1970s as guest-star.

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Leaving aside all this social, political and cultural crap, most people today (in the West at least) fully accept that women are absolutely capable of and have a complete right to engage in any activity or occupation that men do. Sailing, flying, running corporations, fighting wars, restoring steam-engines, farming, making films, etc.

The fact that the majority (not all - but the majority) of women are under-represented as skippers/boat-owners has very little to do with sexism in the industry or the literature, but everything to do with their own instincts and choices.

My own partner prefers gardening, log-fires in cottages and city-breaks to sailing. I could have gone for a more robust sailing-type, but I fell in love with her!
 
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If the sailing industry is relying on a supply of men who like tinkering with engines it's in for a nasty shock. Most younger men are as clueless as most women about how their car engines work. I have fixed countless broken bits of equipment brought to me at work, not because I know much but because I am willing to take them apart and have a look. Genuine questions include 'is it a bad thing if there's a pool of water under my car every night'. Followed by a request to accompany him to the car park to help him find the filler cap. Men didn't know this stuff by instinct. They did woodwork and metalwork while I did cooking and needlework when I was at school. I would have liked to have done all four. I tried at the time but was refused outright. Most people who do like such things have had some encouragement in their lives from a friend or relative. I was lucky.

I actually hardly know of any women who don't like sailing, most of them have never tried it. Nearly all of those who have love it. I do know a few who aren't that keen on sailing with their partners despite the promise of a go on the helm if it isn't too windy and a tantalising supply of fray bentos pies. The most common reason I have heard is they are sick of being shouted at.
 
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Babylon said:
Hats off to all the women sailors who've engaged openly and sometimes hilariously to this thread!
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I totally agree. I was not expecting the responses.
Leaving aside all this social, political and cultural crap, most people today (in the West at least) fully accept that women are absolutely capable of and have a complete right to engage in any activity or occupation that men do. Sailing, flying, running corporations, fighting wars, restoring steam-engines, farming, making films, etc.

The fact that the majority (not all - but the majority) of women are under-represented as skippers/boat-owners has very little to do with sexism in the industry or the literature, but everything to do with their own instincts and choices.!
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Indeed. Freedom to participate, and freedom from being made to feel bad, if they don't.
 
Babylon said:
The fact that the majority (not all - but the majority) of women are under-represented as skippers/boat-owners has very little to do with sexism in the industry or the literature, but everything to do with their own instincts and choices.
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I'm afraid I don't agree. There isn't nearly as much overt sexism as there used to be, although it is not quite dead yet. But a more subtle form of sexism in the form of pressures to maintain the assumptions and stereotypes that tend to keep women in the subordinate position in the sailing world are still there and part of the usual experience of many women in the sailing world. Women experience them. Men do not.
 
TheEcho said:
And in terms of practical boat handling, my (male) instructor lamented that in the standard configuration of mixed sex couples, the guy would stay on the helm while the woman, despite having less strength, was sent off to do the physical stuff with lines, fenders, boat hooks and dangerous leaps (if the guy messed it up). He pointed out an example of good practice as he saw it when a boat arrived where the woman had been 'put on the helm' while the bloke skippering had decided to do the running around himself. All very well, I thought, but an assumption there - is he the skipper? Perhaps she is the skipper, ordering him about, but everyone goes on the stereotypes!
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My wife loves the physical stuff being very sporty in general (she used to do triathlons, marathons, that sort of thing before we had kids). She loves leaping off (the more dangerous (read exciting) the better), and all the physical stuff and I haven't pulled the mainsail up for about five years :). She loves it when its rougher and the side deck is in the water too. Lots of girls like sailing, the trick is to find one that does and marry that one, and make sure you don't put them off! :)
 
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