Winter Sailing: advise needed to keep warm

[SiteSurfer]

To the OP, I missed a bit off my reply - you asked about extending ducting and lagging.

Ducting comes in many sizes and without knowing I wouldn't want to guess how big it is, I'd reason that anything between 60-80mm sounds reasonable. That is available on places like eBay and any stockist of any warm air heater (ducting is ducting), the Webasto style stuff is aluminium outer with a what feels like card sandwich inner. Lagging is also freely available and is normally stocked by the same people and in sizes to complement the duct.

To extend your ducting should be an easy task, you can purchase a Y piece that allows you to divert some of the air flow from the main duct, and route that around the cabin and place outlets where you need them. Naturally the more outlets you have divides the output of the heater. If you want to be clever you could have smaller ducting branching off larger ducting at the closest point to the heater which can help with balancing the air flow.

I'm a great believer in using what you have - if what you have is functioning. I don't see any logic in adding more electric heaters or resorting to buying more clothes when a bit of investigation and a really cheap fix could reduce the problem with the already functioning heater! I'm staggered that you have had so little input on the actual problem given the massive expertise on this forum.

 

[e014945]

Thanks for the advice, so you do not have a silencer if I read your comment correctly?

Gary

A good sleeping bag should be all you need. I don't like leaving heaters on overnight; the only time I've done it was when I had shore power and left a fan-heater on MINIMUM setting, more to reduce damp than to warm the boat. I have spent several weeks aboard in frosty conditions in Scotland, even when the marina had ice on the water, and never been cold at night. Reluctant to get out of the sleeping bag int he morning sometimes, but cold in bed, never.

Worth bearing in mind that, unlike a caravan, tent or even a house, a boat can never get much below freezing - if it does, the water it's floating in has frozen entirely, and that doesn't happen in the UK! SO actually, a sleeping bag good for below zero camping (plenty around) will be ample for a boat.

I have an Eberspacher, and the only noticeable noise inside the boat is a very slight roar from the cabin vent and that's quiet enough that I can also hear the fuel pump ticking! I didn't install it, though, so I can't comment on the details; I'm pretty sure there's a silencer, and as it's mounted in a locker right next to where we sleep, I guess it must be rubber mounted. There is an outer sleeve over the exhaust (just a bit of the hot air ducting slipped over it) which is mainly to protect the locker contents from the exhaust heat, but I suppose it deadens the sound a bit.

 

[e014945]

Thanks a lot, indeed my plan was not to remove it, as it is the first boat that I own which has one heater. But I was expecting a lot better heat from it that what we got, especially considering that the temperature was not too low (i think it went down to 5° outside). the Dampness in the boat is ok in the low 60% which is very reasonable.

I wil see if i have a few photos of the installation and then with your comment try to see what can be improved.

Gary

Case Study: My recent 28ft Sailing boat, heated with a Webasto Air Top 2000, one vent to the main saloon - short thermally lagged duct with a directional outlet.

If you are experiencing a roaring noise, its quite possibly the sound from the unit itself as it blows air through the ducts, I would imagine that the run from the unit to the outlets is not huge which increases the noise. On my new boat I have a much much longer run and the noise from the fan is considerably lower.

Fitting a silencer to the exhaust will both reduce external noise and be kinder to anyone moored near you, fitting an intake silencer (to the combustion side) also helps greatly to reduce noise pollution. Adding a length of ducting to the intake (fresh air) side of things which is ducted to the outside world can also help to reduce noise a bit further and also reduce the possibility of carbon monoxide being recirculated if an exhaust fitting fails (unlikely but possible).

Using thermal lagging on the ducting can also help by reducing a) heat loss and b) vibration against bulkheads and furniture.

Other things to check, is the heater unit mounted on to a rubber base and not directly to a steel plate? Also - is the fuel pump mounted away from bulkhead that vibrate - and contained within a rubber case mount? Again the smallest things can lead to a reduction in noise pollution - far better to go through the whole system now and make small but significant improvements than not use the heater. Thousands of these things are fitted and people sleep with them on overnight all the time (do of course fit smoke and carbon monoxide alarms), not all of us are the hardy camper types and certainly I would be pretty sure that any family would vastly prefer to be warm with a small noise irritant than freezing cold but in silence.

If your boat is anything like mine was, the insulation for the main cabin is a bit dubious and whilst it gets warm quickly, the heat soon dissipated and gets cold again, we countered this by having the heater on until we went to bed, then turning it down to keep the chill off - something like 13 degrees worked well, using the room temperature sensor which we installed inside the cabin away from draughts. Then in the morning someone had to leg it to the thermostat and whizz it back up and hop back into bed.

Also, one final small point - I do use my boat in winter, I'm not a hardy outdoors type and I am able to get my family to happily come on board during cold spells. I took a very early decision to fit a Webasto to both boats and I do not regret it one bit, your Eberspacher should fundamentally be exactly the same and I'd council peservering a bit if for no other reason than you have something fitted that would be ludicrous to remove for the sake of a bit of trial and error with some of the points above.

 

[e014945]

Hi,

Yes indeed, i am on the facebook page. very interesting even if we are just a few for the moment

Gary

are you on the sundream 28 facebook group?

I have a sundream and have been sailing my recently launched boat. i dont have any proper sailing gear as spend the money on the boat. i wear lots of layers and scarf and hat. I dont have a heater on my boat but the gas stove seems to heat the boat fine if the cabin doors are open.

Sundream owners group-

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1646563518731818/

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Thanks for the advice, so you do not have a silencer if I read your comment correctly?

Gary

No, I think there is a silencer. But I'm not sure - the equipment is not easy to access.

 

[thinwater]

UK vs US usage note: In the US the stuff around the ducts is called insulation, and only engineers are used to hearing it called lagging. Just interesting. Ask for lagging in the store and they will direct you to the masonry anchors.

 

[stu9000]

Just bought this from Bes. Simple, Cheap and I hope it will be effective.

https://www.bes.co.uk/flat-pipe-wrap

No insulation at all at the moment so I'm hoping the forecabin will see a significant difference.

 

[e014945]

Dear All,

I am back and still not convinced with my heater, so I bought a little electric fan heater for when we are in the marina and then three tube heater for the cabins that i want to keep on all the time while the boat is in the marina, they are not powerful but maybe this will be enough.

On a recent sail to move the boat after the winter, I was worried about my battery and did not use the heater much after seing the consumption of about 3amps an hour. So i was cold again.

Next weekend we plan on going back and see how it goes with the electric heater and some new sleeping bags.

I will keep you posted.

Have a great start of the season

Gary

 

[ShinyShoe]

You need a thicker jumper and a better sleeping bag

 

[MarcJ]

You need a thicker jumper and a better sleeping bag

Or a decent air blown diesel heater!

 

[e014945]

Thanks but actually i have the two but they heater in unbearable in terms of noise.

Do you all really manage to sleep with it on? (in the rear cabin)?

 

[maby]

Thanks but actually i have the two but they heater in unbearable in terms of noise.

Do you all really manage to sleep with it on? (in the rear cabin)?

Are you referring to an Eberspacher type blown air heater? Properly installed, they should not be particularly noisy - at least once the boat is up to temperature.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Are you referring to an Eberspacher type blown air heater? Properly installed, they should not be particularly noisy - at least once the boat is up to temperature.

+1. Ours is installed right next to our sleeping cabin, and the noise is insignificant.

 

[Tammany]

I use mine all year round plus do winter camping as well. A 4 season sleeping bag plus polyester thermals is all what I use at night. Hot food & drink are also important. Don't use heater while camping but use small electric heater while at marina or small stove top attachment while at anchor. Not necessary to heat boat overnight if you have decent sleep system but it is a bit fresh getting up in mornings lol. You soon warm up though.

 

[e014945]

+1. Ours is installed right next to our sleeping cabin, and the noise is insignificant.

Good to know ! thanks but on which sort of boat and size? ours is only a 28.

Regards,

 

[e014945]

yes we have a D3. but i think that it is not fitted properly

 

[maby]

yes we have a D3. but i think that it is not fitted properly

Our boat is, admittedly, quite a lot bigger - 42 foot - but we had a Webasto on a 33 footer and slept in the aft cabin very close to it. When the heater is firing up and then running flat out to heat a cold boat, it can be quite noisy, but once it is up to temperature it should quieten down a lot. The only thing that I could hear was the fuel feed pump which does tick quite loudly.

If it is an old heater, it may be a bit more noisy - they (and, in particular, Eberspachers) tended to not have so much control over fan speed with the result that they tend to alternate between relatively high power and completely off. The more modern devices (and, in particular, Webastos) can turn their output down pretty low - and, hence, be pretty quiet. Our current Webasto is noisy when it is first turned on in a cold boat and will run flat out for half an hour or more, but that then gets the temperature up to comfortable levels and it turns itself down, ticking over very quietly and outputing a gentle draft of warm air.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Good to know ! thanks but on which sort of boat and size? ours is only a 28.

Regards,

Moody 31 mk II. So a very similar size.