Bobc
Well-known member
If you're goingg to leave the Eber on all night, make sure you have a good Carbon Monoxide alarm.
Winter Sailing: advise needed to keep warm
- Thread starter e014945
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john_morris_uk
Well-known member
True. But somethings gone drastically wrong with the heater or the installation if you get CO into the boat from an Eber or Webasto etc. (Cabin ventilation next to external exhaust with wind blowing the wrong way?)
SiteSurfer
Active member
Case Study: My recent 28ft Sailing boat, heated with a Webasto Air Top 2000, one vent to the main saloon - short thermally lagged duct with a directional outlet.
If you are experiencing a roaring noise, its quite possibly the sound from the unit itself as it blows air through the ducts, I would imagine that the run from the unit to the outlets is not huge which increases the noise. On my new boat I have a much much longer run and the noise from the fan is considerably lower.
Fitting a silencer to the exhaust will both reduce external noise and be kinder to anyone moored near you, fitting an intake silencer (to the combustion side) also helps greatly to reduce noise pollution. Adding a length of ducting to the intake (fresh air) side of things which is ducted to the outside world can also help to reduce noise a bit further and also reduce the possibility of carbon monoxide being recirculated if an exhaust fitting fails (unlikely but possible).
Using thermal lagging on the ducting can also help by reducing a) heat loss and b) vibration against bulkheads and furniture.
Other things to check, is the heater unit mounted on to a rubber base and not directly to a steel plate? Also - is the fuel pump mounted away from bulkhead that vibrate - and contained within a rubber case mount? Again the smallest things can lead to a reduction in noise pollution - far better to go through the whole system now and make small but significant improvements than not use the heater. Thousands of these things are fitted and people sleep with them on overnight all the time (do of course fit smoke and carbon monoxide alarms), not all of us are the hardy camper types and certainly I would be pretty sure that any family would vastly prefer to be warm with a small noise irritant than freezing cold but in silence.
If your boat is anything like mine was, the insulation for the main cabin is a bit dubious and whilst it gets warm quickly, the heat soon dissipated and gets cold again, we countered this by having the heater on until we went to bed, then turning it down to keep the chill off - something like 13 degrees worked well, using the room temperature sensor which we installed inside the cabin away from draughts. Then in the morning someone had to leg it to the thermostat and whizz it back up and hop back into bed.
Also, one final small point - I do use my boat in winter, I'm not a hardy outdoors type and I am able to get my family to happily come on board during cold spells. I took a very early decision to fit a Webasto to both boats and I do not regret it one bit, your Eberspacher should fundamentally be exactly the same and I'd council peservering a bit if for no other reason than you have something fitted that would be ludicrous to remove for the sake of a bit of trial and error with some of the points above.
If you are experiencing a roaring noise, its quite possibly the sound from the unit itself as it blows air through the ducts, I would imagine that the run from the unit to the outlets is not huge which increases the noise. On my new boat I have a much much longer run and the noise from the fan is considerably lower.
Fitting a silencer to the exhaust will both reduce external noise and be kinder to anyone moored near you, fitting an intake silencer (to the combustion side) also helps greatly to reduce noise pollution. Adding a length of ducting to the intake (fresh air) side of things which is ducted to the outside world can also help to reduce noise a bit further and also reduce the possibility of carbon monoxide being recirculated if an exhaust fitting fails (unlikely but possible).
Using thermal lagging on the ducting can also help by reducing a) heat loss and b) vibration against bulkheads and furniture.
Other things to check, is the heater unit mounted on to a rubber base and not directly to a steel plate? Also - is the fuel pump mounted away from bulkhead that vibrate - and contained within a rubber case mount? Again the smallest things can lead to a reduction in noise pollution - far better to go through the whole system now and make small but significant improvements than not use the heater. Thousands of these things are fitted and people sleep with them on overnight all the time (do of course fit smoke and carbon monoxide alarms), not all of us are the hardy camper types and certainly I would be pretty sure that any family would vastly prefer to be warm with a small noise irritant than freezing cold but in silence.
If your boat is anything like mine was, the insulation for the main cabin is a bit dubious and whilst it gets warm quickly, the heat soon dissipated and gets cold again, we countered this by having the heater on until we went to bed, then turning it down to keep the chill off - something like 13 degrees worked well, using the room temperature sensor which we installed inside the cabin away from draughts. Then in the morning someone had to leg it to the thermostat and whizz it back up and hop back into bed.
Also, one final small point - I do use my boat in winter, I'm not a hardy outdoors type and I am able to get my family to happily come on board during cold spells. I took a very early decision to fit a Webasto to both boats and I do not regret it one bit, your Eberspacher should fundamentally be exactly the same and I'd council peservering a bit if for no other reason than you have something fitted that would be ludicrous to remove for the sake of a bit of trial and error with some of the points above.
maby
Well-known member
I would agree with that. We have gone from an Ebber in our previous boat to a Webasto in the new one and I find myself reaching down to put my hand in front of the vent to find out if it is running.
SiteSurfer
Active member
I have to say that the difference between the Air Top 2000 and the Evo 4 is quite extreme given the Evo 4's variable fan speed, coupled with the noise reduction measure detailed above also mean that sometimes I can't tell its actually on. It's a nice bit of kit.
Birdseye
Well-known member
If you have leccy available then there are plenty of cheap convector heaters that will do the job, and I would trust them more than a diesel heater. But in reality you should not need a heater once in bed - there are sleeping bags and duvets that will keep you warm in minus 10C. The secret is not to get cold before you get into bed and thats when the heaters matter. But the noise doesnt.
Keeping warm whilst sailing the boat in winter is a more difficult issue than keeping warm at night. I recommend an fishermans winter suit or a floatation suit.
Keeping warm whilst sailing the boat in winter is a more difficult issue than keeping warm at night. I recommend an fishermans winter suit or a floatation suit.
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
For daytime warmth, it is best to have a layered approach. Obviously a wind/water-proof outer garment, but then three or four layers under that. The idea is two-fold. First, many layers trap air between them, and insulate the body better than a single thick layer, Second, if you get too warm or too cold, it is easy to regulate your temperature by shedding a layer, or adding a layer if too cold. In low temperatures, it is important not to get over heated so that you sweat, because sweat will evaporate from your body, pass out through your clothing and then condense or freeze in the outer layers of your clothing, severely reducing the thermal efficiency of your clothing. When in Antarctica, we were warned very seriously about the danger of overheating, which can lead to hypothermia, crazy as it sounds!
An impervious outer layer (e.g. old-fashioned oil-skins) can exaggerate this effect by trapping moisture in the outer layers of your clothing. That's why breathable kit or at least well-designed vents in outer layers are important. But the best precaution is to be aware that if you're feeling at all sweaty, it is time to open up or take a layer off.
Modern technical clothing is built on this principle, but really all that is needed is to think many thin layers - the old fashioned vest, shirt, pullover, jacket is actually pretty efficient! Someone once did an experiment with the clothing worn by pioneering mountaineers such as George Mallory and found that their combination of silk and cotton inner layers and woolen outer layers was actually as efficient as modern technical clothing and more flexible and comfortable to wear! Of course, it wasn't as resistant to wet, but that isn't an issue on Mount Everest, where water stays in the solid phase
Hydrozoan
Well-known member
The idea that we lose up to half of our body heat through a bare head has been thoroughly debunked: it’s about 7-9%. However for several reasons ‘... when the head is allowed to get cold and the body is effectively insulated, the body’s core temperature drops a lot more rapidly than most people would expect’. http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130708-is-most-heat-lost-from-your-head
gus
Member
On my last 2 boats that had 'accommodation', I had a catalytic heater. Kept the boats warm on a low setting, nothing to maintain and simple to operate. Imperative of course to always have ventilation but wouldn't be without them for cold weather comfort.
johnalison
Well-known member
That brings back memories of our Minicat heater from the '70s. Actually, it's still in the garage. Filled with SBP fuel, it needed a spoonful of meths on the gauze plate lit and left to burn down and then it was hot enough to continue to 'burn' the fuel. If you left it in the cabin for an hour or two on a cool summer evening it definitely took the chill off, but it never got the boat 'warm'. At least it was safe.
Spyro
Well-known member
If you have shore power a small oil filled radiator left on all nigh can make a difference something like 1500-2000w. It's quiet and warm. A hot water bottle or 2 can be good for taking the chill off the bed before getting in.
maby
Well-known member
That does rather depend on the source of shore power and how expensive it is. The Eber on our previous boat failed in the late autumn and the main dealer was completely unable to fix it for more than six months with the result that we had to keep ourselves warm with electric heaters - they worked fine and were not so expensive to run. We bought our new boat early this spring without heating fitted and spent March and April aboard using the same electric heaters as in the previous boat, but in a different marina - the electricity bills were horrendous! We made sure that we had got a nice new Webasto fitted before the weather started to get cold this winter...
UK-WOOZY
Well-known member
are you on the sundream 28 facebook group?
I have a sundream and have been sailing my recently launched boat. i dont have any proper sailing gear as spend the money on the boat. i wear lots of layers and scarf and hat. I dont have a heater on my boat but the gas stove seems to heat the boat fine if the cabin doors are open.
Sundream owners group-
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1646563518731818/
I have a sundream and have been sailing my recently launched boat. i dont have any proper sailing gear as spend the money on the boat. i wear lots of layers and scarf and hat. I dont have a heater on my boat but the gas stove seems to heat the boat fine if the cabin doors are open.
Sundream owners group-
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1646563518731818/
Last edited:
Spyro
Well-known member
Hope your hatches are open too
john_morris_uk
Well-known member
I think that might be more to do with the installation than the make of the heater as I have to do the same with our Eber. It's on rubber mounts in the cockpit locker and the exhaust discharges through the cockpit coaming and we can't hear that at all from inside the boat. There's a very gentle sound of the air coming through the vent when it's on warp factor and just started up but as soon as it starts slowing down to regulate itself you can't hear it at all...
UK-WOOZY
Well-known member
thats with the companion way hatch open
wully1
Well-known member
The first nights I spent on my new to me boat last winter were cold affairs..like a lot of boats that haven’t been used for many months she was damp and therefore cold inside.
I was trying to sleep inside a 4 season sleeping bag and silk liner wearing a long sleeved thermal top, thick socks and woollen hat with another sleeping bag over the top.
i was cold most of the night.
As the days wore on the nights got more comfortable as the boat and bunk cushions dried out.
I got some electric heaters and turned the mattress on it’s side to air during the day.
Now I’ve stopped all the leaks and dried the boat out she’s now comfortable all year round.
I was trying to sleep inside a 4 season sleeping bag and silk liner wearing a long sleeved thermal top, thick socks and woollen hat with another sleeping bag over the top.
i was cold most of the night.
As the days wore on the nights got more comfortable as the boat and bunk cushions dried out.
I got some electric heaters and turned the mattress on it’s side to air during the day.
Now I’ve stopped all the leaks and dried the boat out she’s now comfortable all year round.
Applespider
New member
Even with a good sleeping bag (mine's rated to -5C), you can sometimes still find where it comes into contact with the bunk chilly (the compression of your bodyweight stops the insulation being as effective). When it's really cold, I like putting a blanket on the bunk that just seems to heat from below better. IKEA does great lightweight fleece ones that don't take up much room and are easily washable for under £5. Having another on hand for any 3am awakenings as the temperature drops can be useful - have it off to one side and 'unfurled' so that it's easy to pull over yourself half-awake.
If your sleeping bag comes with a hood, pull it up and over your head. If not, consider wearing a hat to bed.
Having a hot drink before bed does help you feel warmer - but you'll have to weigh that up with whether it will make you need to get up in the night - and therefore get cold again!
If your sleeping bag comes with a hood, pull it up and over your head. If not, consider wearing a hat to bed.
Having a hot drink before bed does help you feel warmer - but you'll have to weigh that up with whether it will make you need to get up in the night - and therefore get cold again!
gus
Member
A big advantage of having shore power is being able to have an electric blanket in your bunk. Lovely and cosy!
UK-WOOZY
Well-known member
my boats on a swing mooring.. no chance lol
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