Windlass winds in, but not out

[jfm]

Aha, that page from manual acouple of posts above explains the pawl Jimmy. It is just to allow you to tighten the clutch. I suspected that, but have never needed it. Like most people I guess, I find the pawl is a waste of time

 

[wakeup]

I don't get that mike. Mine wind in manually, just using the winch handle. I've tried it a few times, both on my previous electrics and my current hydraulic

Hmm thought mine did too once the clutch is fully engaged/tightened.

I will try this weekend and report back.

 

[jfm]

I will try this weekend and report back.

Me too

 

[jfm]

Ooh, none taken.

. Are you in Fr this wkend?

 

[Talulah]

I had my Lofrans Kobra Windlass fail over the weekend. Windlass is about 6 years old.
It would barely turn and then stop.
Initial thoughts were corrosion to leads/contacts on main power supply.
Solenoid was clicking fine so no problem with that.
As I worked through the system I finally dropped the motor out from the underside of the Windlass.
I noticed the casing of the electric motor has some corrosion and the whole motor had 'swollen' up.
Hence new motor required.
As the boat is about to go an extended trip I had to buy a new complete Windlass and drop it in. (£800 Marine Superstore.)
I now have a spare Lofrans Kobra windlass (8mm) needing new motor. Open to offers.
One thing that did catch me out is some of these motors have 2 contacts and some have 3.
You have to get the correct solenoid to match the motor.
i.e a Motor with 3 contacts +'ve, -ve, +'ve has a solenoid that is supplying power to one of the 2 positives (up or down). A motor with two contacts has a solenoid that switches the direction of the current to get up/down.

 

[BartW]

when the chain was strangled, and blocked,
the winch had to "slib" somewhere
or the electrical cirquit breaker had to go -off-

if the clutch was tightened to strong / sinds very long time,

it might be possible that the "spindle" was slipping,
thats the gear between the horizontal and vertical shaft (inside housing nr1)

if thats the case; one spindle gear might be damaged / broken

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

. Are you in Fr this wkend?

No, just by way of a change I am in the UK this weekend, but back at LR from Thurs 17. If you fancy a trip away from PV, EME is coming down and we are planning a formal u/w light inspection, followed by a lengthy post-inspection analysis session in the bar at LR.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

when the chain was strangled, and blocked,
the winch had to "slib" somewhere
or the electrical cirquit breaker had to go -off-

if the clutch was tightened to strong / sinds very long time,

it might be possible that the "spindle" was slipping,
thats the gear between the horizontal and vertical shaft (inside housing nr1)

if thats the case; one spindle gear might be damaged / broken

But if that was the case, I would get the same symptom on lifting the anchor, no?

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[BartW]

But if that was the case, I would get the same symptom on lifting the anchor, no?

not necessarily,
if some mechanical play in the system, it could be possible that the force in both directions is in another "area" of the spindle gear

can you see if the gypsy has been slipping in its position ?
or was it "locked" between the two V-shaped parts (parts nr 8 and nr 14)
if not,
something else has been slipping when the winch was running, and anker not moving.

 

[Nick_H]

yeh, that seems possible. I thought it couldn't be a tooth breakage on the gear, because then it wouldn't retrieve, but could it be that the leading edge of the teeth have been rounded off and are slipping, but the trailing edge (which becomes leading edge with the windlass going the other way) would still work?

It's a long time since i've looked at the gear in one of these, but it seems feasible.

 

[DAKA]

Here's a closer view:

Cheers
Jimmy

I posted this yesterday then deleted it as its difficult to explain but I think its simple.........

The crack to the left is the problem.

The raked forward ridges will catch the crack and open it as the chain is lowered.

As the chain is raised the raked back ridges will close the crack and not catch .


I guess is it was fractured as you raised the new long chain and it heaped, the chain could only force against the housing forcing the sprocket south of the photo.



In my opinion as the chain had no where to go and the motor started to struggle the trip should have cut the power.
(mine used to trip all the time until I realized the problem)

I guess your trip is rated too high or faulty.


My extra long chain used to heap up, you could hear the motor struggle and the trip would soon go.
This happened 30 odd times without damage.

Eventually I realized that at halfway point I have to knock the pile over.

I now keep 30-40 meters in a pile out the way to the side.
30-40 meters are in use regularly.

If I ever anchor in deep water I stop at halfway point and push pile one to the side.

The 5 mins it takes to move pile 1 also helps break free the anchor as the waves on the reduced scope have time to loosen it, I tend to lift 1/2 before even starting the engines
.

 

[Hurricane]

Hmm thought mine did too once the clutch is fully engaged/tightened.

I will try this weekend and report back.

Me too

Please let me know how you get on.
jfm - yours, being hydraulic, may be different.

But IIRC the winch handle only turns anticlockwise which will release the clutch and the chain will run out. On ours, you can’t wind the winch clockwise without a special gearbox which incorporates a switch to disengage its gears.

It would be interesting to hear if anyone has any answers on this. It worries me that someday we wont be able to retrieve the anchor. SWMBO and I can only just lift it when there is no load on it and the chain is just above the surface of the water.

 

[wakeup]

My boat is small and light and I can haul in the chain and anchor by hand although quite some effort required. I think my windlass is way over specced for the boat. It seems huge and uses 8mm chain which seems overkill for a 3.5 ton boat.

Given the cost of the conversion H, would it not be cheaper to fit a manual winch near the windlass that you could use in the event of emergency?

 

[BartW]

On ours, you can’t wind the winch clockwise without a special gearbox which incorporates a switch to disengage its gears.

Why is that ?
why can't you add a reverse switch , a 2way or reverse polarity solenoid ?

I use this switch to get the anker out of its "bed",
then I release the brake, and drop it by gravity.

Mike,
in case of an immergency,
you could alway's drop the chain, with a rope and a boy on it,
go back to the marina, and asc someone else to recover it

 

[wakeup]

Backside photos and wiring of Lewmar

Hi Jimmy et all,

I've just dug out of my geeky boat photo database which includes photos of the wiring of the back side of my lewmar (Btw, is it normal to photograph all of the inside of ones boat for later reference? )

It seems to me that there is one neg feed to the motor and two positives which I assume control the direction of the motor (as opposed to the solenoid reversing the polarity). You can see they both terminate in the solenoid. I guess you should check the +ve connections to ensure one is not adrift and also swap the working one over to test the solenoid and or motor.

Appols if wrong resolution, I forget what settings one is supposed to use with Photobucket and this site.

 

[vas]

watching this thread with interest, hesitant to post as although I've spend a considerable amount of time taking fully apart and rebuilding mine it's a Lofrans and horizontal whereas this one is Lewmar and vertical so mech is different.
Anyway, I'll add my 2drx saying that I'll be very impressed if the actual mechanism is broken especially as jtb says that it has happened only a few times and he hears the click sound (presumably of the solenoid).

I'd put my money on corrosion and solenoid especially if its like wakeup's photo with 3 cables. To my mind this is TWO solenoids in one casing, so perfectly normal (err, well almost...) for the one to fail and the other to work fine.

I'd simply do as wakeup says, swap the thick red cables (looks like it's easier to do in the motor rather than the solenoid itself!) and see if the windlass can release and not retrieve the anchor.
I cannot see how the actual switch from helm or foot switch would be to blame as you'd not hear the click of the solenoid.

good luck!

V.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Hi Jimmy et all,

I've just dug out of my geeky boat photo database which includes photos of the wiring of the back side of my lewmar (Btw, is it normal to photograph all of the inside of ones boat for later reference? )

Mate, if you haven't got a photo of the _inside_ of your holding tank, then you're just not trying hard enough....

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

watching this thread with interest, hesitant to post as although I've spend a considerable amount of time taking fully apart and rebuilding mine it's a Lofrans and horizontal whereas this one is Lewmar and vertical so mech is different.
Anyway, I'll add my 2drx saying that I'll be very impressed if the actual mechanism is broken especially as jtb says that it has happened only a few times and he hears the click sound (presumably of the solenoid).

I'd put my money on corrosion and solenoid especially if its like wakeup's photo with 3 cables. To my mind this is TWO solenoids in one casing, so perfectly normal (err, well almost...) for the one to fail and the other to work fine.

I'd simply do as wakeup says, swap the thick red cables (looks like it's easier to do in the motor rather than the solenoid itself!) and see if the windlass can release and not retrieve the anchor.
I cannot see how the actual switch from helm or foot switch would be to blame as you'd not hear the click of the solenoid.

good luck!

V.

Hi V

Just to be completely clear, it's not a single click, it's click-click-click-click while the drum is turning, but without the chain moving. Still, without getting back down to the boat, I can't investigate much further.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[RobWales]

"it's click-click-click-click while the drum is turning, but without the chain moving"

Sound quite strange!!! because if the gypsy is turning then you would think it would pick up the chain? Yes?

You sure the chain is the same spec as the old J ?

 

[wakeup]

Mate, if you haven't got a photo of the _inside_ of your holding tank, then you're just not trying hard enough....

Cheers
Jimmy

OK , I am amongst my own.

I am not going to ask why you needed to photograph that. I hope the self tappers are holding the lid on and not just randomly placed fittings screwed into the tank.