Windlass servicing

[Neeves]

I wondered how often members serviced their windlass - took the gear box off, opened it up, checked for water leaks, refilled with new oil, checked shaft, checked wear on gypsy teeth, check bolt corrosion etc.

I know what the user manuals say - I wondered what the reality was - or is it out of sight out of mind?

My very limited experience is that the water seals can fail, allowing water and worse to enter the gear box with inevitable corrosion of the internals of the gear box. Why the seals fail ?- possibly straining the windlass by using it to take the load on the anchor chain, when power setting, retrieving without aid from the yacht motor and an absence of use of a snubber or chain lock. Or do the electric motors fail first - and people simply dump the lot and start anew.

I have read that loading the gearbox, unnecessarily might bend the shafts, seems most unlikely looking at the shafts of most windlass (more likely to pull the windlass off the deck!) but the seals appear a weak point (but they receive little mention). Motors also seem a weak point as windlass that have been installed for any length of time seem to show considerable corrosion of the motor casing.

When we removed an old windlass one thing we found was there is a lot of aluminium in windlass held together with stainless bolts (that are not isolated from the aluminium). The only way to remove in the end was to use an angle grinder. When we installed the new windlass we carefully isolated all the stainless from the alloy (though whether in the long term that will work - remains to be seen). We also found, this was an obvious one, that the motor was too near the fall of the chain, increasing chance of corrosion and I saw one new yacht, at a boat show, where the fall of the chain actually rubbed on the electric motor casing. (motors can be located anywhere on the 'radius of the shaft' - commonly the motor is located convenient for the cabling, not the fall of the chain).

Jonathan

edit New windlass, maybe lots of old ones, have sight glasses in the gear box to allow oil inspection. Do people find they are located such that they are useful. On ours, great though the idea is, you would need to be a contortionist, have a small head, or maybe use on of those cameras on an umbilical chord to access. close edit

 

[West Coast]

The windlass on my old boat was a lewmar pro 1000, horizontal type. It is fairly easy to remove and then strip down, so did this every 2 seasons. Never found any trace of corrosion inside, although I put some external marine sealant round the casing joint when re assembling.

 

[cliveshelton]

Guilty as charged.
10 years and counting. Not serviced the windlass (Quick Antares).

 

[Neeves]

Guilty as charged.
10 years and counting. Not serviced the windlass (Quick Antares).

I think you might be amonst friends.

Remarkably they actually seem to be very robust.

 

[Plum]

I think you might be amonst friends.

Remarkably they actually seem to be very robust.

Mine, a Leroy Somer, sadly no longer made, has not been serviced, other than greasing the cone clutch behind the gypsy and replacing the foot switches mounted on top, for 17 years.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[NormanS]

My Lofrans Tigres (sic) gets a serious amount of work. I do take the load off it when at anchor, but seldom motor up to the anchor when retrieving. It gets minimal maintenance. I have once in 12 years taken it off, and changed the oil and freed off the warping drum, which was seized onto its shaft.

It's a good piece of kit, my only complaints are that the chain stripper is held on with stainless setscrews tapped directly into the alloy body. If and when I need to take it off, they will have to be drilled out. The only other gripe is that although there is an oil level window, it's not clear enough to see. Otherwise, no problems, and none expected.

Edit: Obviously I do lubricate the cone driving face on the gypsy, and the thread for the clutch nut etc.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I recently stripped and rebuilt my Simpson Lawrence Francis 400 windlass. It was put on the boat in 1974 and there is no doubt that it has been serviced in the past but when I do not know, I have owned the yacht for 10 years. There was no water inside and no signs of emulsified oil. Thick grease was used on the external seals, O Rings. I found two thrust bearings damaged, 1 with the cage for holding the ball bearings very deformed, another slightly. The gears and cone clutch were all in good condition, as was the solenoid, motor, buttons and rubber covers; the latter have become stiff. The casing was very tatty so it was taken to a body shop for a repaint and it it has come up very well. I did find one seized cap screw which required a machine shop to remove and I found that the hole has stripped, so it will need a thread insert.

All in all I am fairly impressed at the robustness and ease of disassembly and assembly. Unfortunately the oil filler cap is just a push in bung but it appears to work. The thrust bearings were only £3 each.

 

[BelleSerene]

Mine has not been serviced, other than greasing the cone clutch behind the gypsy

That’s the one bit you shouldn’t grease!

 

[awol]

That’s the one bit you shouldn’t grease!

Not in my experience. No grease = jammed cones and that leads to a fight, on vertical yins, anyway, with the chain stripper screws.

 

[Poignard]

This is a copy of the maintenance instructions for Lofrans Royale windlass:

"The gearwheel transmission of the anchorwindlass is ‘lubricated for life’ (Agip GRMU/EP 0; grease on the basis of lithium soap and anticorrosive additives).
The following maintenance checks must be carried out at least once a year:
- On the gipsy side: Disengage the clutch-nut, grease the screwthread of the shaft end and again engage the clutch-nut.
- On the hauling drum side: Remove bolt and take off the hauling drum. Grease the shaft end and the hauling drum surface. Now replace the hauling drum and re-tighten bolt.
Lubricant to be applied: multipurpose Lithium grease no. 2 (Outboard gear grease).
When sailing on sea-water it is recommended to rinse the anchor windlass regularly with fresh water.
Important: The hexagonal bolt head on the top of the anchor winch is not an oil filler cap."

I never grease the cone clutch but (when I remember to) I slacken it off when the windlass is not in use.

 

[Yngmar]

That’s the one bit you shouldn’t grease!

Of course you should, and regularly.

It's shocking how many people don't know about their windlass clutch, or use it wrongly. The clutch is a wonderful and important thing. Always makes me facepalm when I see people using the windlass motor to slowly lower their anchor and chain whilst drifting about the anchorage, then having no clue if the anchor has touched ground yet or not.

You use the clutch to let the anchor down at a controllable speed of your choosing (that's why Lofrans gives you a lever that fits on the prongs of the clutch nut - vertical ones often have a winch handle socket for this). When the anchor reaches bottom, it's weight is removed from the equation, so you'll immediately notice this in a slower chain payout speed. You can then wait for the boat to fall back a bit so you don't drop a pile of chain on top of the anchor and foul it. A correctly greased clutch will also protect the windlass from high loads, including the sudden stop when the fully retrieved anchor halts at the bow roller.

It's a quick and simple job to service your clutch cone - on a Lofrans you take off the stopper o-ring, unscrew the pronged nut and the two bolts holding the chain stripper arm. Then you can take off the gypsy and outer clutch cone (the inner can stay on its keyed shaft). Clean the clutch surfaces on both sides (use a scotchbrite if there are any rough spots or corrosion from previous neglect), apply waterproof grease and put it all back together. Takes 10 minutes and your clutch will work properly again. If you don't do this, you'll damage the thing - on mine the key and slot for the inner clutch cone were severely twisted from shock loads (the clutch cone was dry and corroded) and it took hours to get the damn thing off and repair the damage. This does the gearbox no favours either.

Like many, my windlass was also severely neglected when I got the boat, and judging by the SVB sticker on it had already been replaced at least once, probably at great cost and shipping fees. Part of the problem is a widely known issue with the rubber "moat" Lofrans designed that keeps a puddle around the base, leading to severe corrosion until the thing just snaps off. The simple solution is to cut the moat down and make a sealant bevel, so water runs out. I had to rebuild the base first, and painted the thing where the anodizing was gone to prevent further corrosion. Also of course the oil change was well overdue, and the seal protecting the rear housing with the motor had failed. Surprisingly the gearbox and oil seals were okay, given the abuse it had suffered.

All fixed now, and I feel much happier anchoring in the knowledge that this important bit of kit won't randomly fail, or suddenly hop off the boat while breaking out the anchor.

 

[Plum]

Not in my experience. No grease = jammed cones and that leads to a fight, on vertical yins, anyway, with the chain stripper screws.

Agree, that was my experience so i now grease the cones and has been great for the last three years since.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[BelleSerene]

Don’t know if there’s a difference here, hidden in what we mean by the ‘cone’?

Here’s the manual of the windlass in question. http://www.quicknauticalequipment.com/resources/downloads_qne-prod/1/man08a_antares10_15.pdf. Page 17 says:

Clean all the parts removed to avoid corrosion, and grease the shaft thread (13 or 15) and the gypsy (6) where the clutch cones rest (4 and 7) (use grease suitable for marine environment).​

If you also grease the diagonal surface of the cone you are lubricating the very thing that stops your anchor chain slipping. Greasing it would be like greasing the brake pads on your car.

I suspect we’re all actually meaning the same thing, that yes, you should grease the flat surfaces between gypsy and cones so when you open the clutch and the anchor’s falling you don’t have metal abrading on metal, but that you should NOT grease the cone’s conical section which is the very thing that’s providing friction when you close the clutch. Right?

 

[vas]

went though rebuilding a Lofrans Tigres 5yrs ago. It was a 70s item probably never serviced properly. Axles and all basic (and expensive bits) were there unbent, just slightly (or not so) stuck to each other. Replaced all seals though!
Main problem was the ss stripper bolted with ss bolts to the casing that had been obliterated. Saw the same thing on a few more tigres from the 80s and 90s in the marina, so a known problem. That had led to the oil leaking out through the pitted alloy.
Considering the size of the axle, I'd dare argue that horizontal windlasses will probably rip off the deck before bending axles, hence I'm happy dropping and retrieving anchor without using the engine on a 12ton 43ft mobo.
more info here: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?293957-gipsy-gone&highlight=gipsy+gone

BTW, if you remove the visor thing and CLEAN IT PROPERLY, you'll be amazed how well you can see the oil level and even the red thin line the middle of the glass

cheers

V.

 

[awol]

If you also grease the diagonal surface of the cone you are lubricating the very thing that stops your anchor chain slipping. Greasing it would be like greasing the brake pads on your car.

I suspect we’re all actually meaning the same thing, that yes, you should grease the flat surfaces between gypsy and cones so when you open the clutch and the anchor’s falling you don’t have metal abrading on metal, but that you should NOT grease the cone’s conical section which is the very thing that’s providing friction when you close the clutch. Right?

Disagree, I'm afraid. When my cones were dry it was nearly impossible to free the gypsy to drop the hook, With the cone faces greased, drop control is easy and I have no difficulty in applying enough load to lift the anchor to the point of dipping the bow to unstick it. I read your instructions as agreeing with me.

 

[johnalison]

Disagree, I'm afraid. When my cones were dry it was nearly impossible to free the gypsy to drop the hook, With the cone faces greased, drop control is easy and I have no difficulty in applying enough load to lift the anchor to the point of dipping the bow to unstick it. I read your instructions as agreeing with me.

It has never occurred to me to grease the clutch, for fear of causing it to slip when this is not desired. So far, I have not had any trouble with my 'dry' clutch, but I can see your point. We almost invariably lower the anchor with the winch power rather than by releasing the clutch, but maybe you are right.

Servicing the winch is one of those pleasant tasks that one leaves for a warm evening early in the season. I rather enjoy it, and treat the winch to a nice polish afterwards for its forbearance before retiring to the cockpit for my own reward.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

The cone clutch on my windless sits in an oil bath but it has quite a big spring pushing the two halves together. The principle is the same as taper fits on flywheels and drive shafts, chucks on drills / lathes. The taper angle is such that there is a lot of surface area gripping with minimal longitudinal force clamping the taper shaft / receptacle together. Of course, different cones / tapers are designed differently but in essence the principle is similar for all taper fits, even when the taper is lubricated.

 

[MM5AHO]

I stripped my Lewmar Pro series 1000 this winter for the first time. I thought that it might have a bent main shaft, but I was wrong. Inside it was spotless, but with a lot of grease. I cleaned out the old grease, despite it looking clean, cleaned every part, and put it all back together. Impressed with the build of this lump of stainless. And have been impressed with its ability, and speed since installing it. It's done a lot of work, and still like new. It seals onto the deck with a rubber gasket, might change that when refitting it to the deck, after the deck gets its paintjob.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I've only serviced manual winches but would strongly recommend an annual strip down and lubricate as many (Lofrans in particular) have a combination of metals - aluminium and stainless - that lend themselves to corrosion/oxidation if left for too long.

 

[DickieT]

Yes, certainly grease the cone clutch, do mine every season. Motor bike “wet” gearboxes use a basket clutch that runs in oil. Nearer home the cone clutches in our marine gear boxes run in oil. So grease away, it’s important as others have said to reduce shock loads on the rest of the drive chain - and give you smooth control of the decent.