Wind Generator?

[ribrage]

Ok so I don't plan to winter in Scotland or Norway. Only summer 2016 there. We'll head south by then and plan to cross the pond this time next year. Then it will be either on to Patagonia or through canal into the Pacific.

In terms of my usage I really don't know at this stage as I've never lived aboard. I've been refitting all the absolute necessities that I can't do en route first. I.e. engine, genset, watermaker, seacocks, prop shaft and the list goes on.

In terms of power I've only got as far as trying to keep power hungry things down. I.e. efficient fridge, good insulation, LED everything, windvane steering and so on.

Anyway I'll begin measuring up to fit some flexi panels to the coach roof and see if I can move my 100W rigid panel 90 degrees and fit another 100w next to it.

p.s. I have 4x110 Amp Service batteries not 3 as I stated earlier. Mis-typed.

Personally Id avoid the flexi panels - we had two of them die on us in a gale in Lisbon just two years old and then lost another one a year later - each time its been similar issues with internal connection faults, IE flex the panel a little and get a connection , flex it the other way and lose the connection - these were sunware panels and NOT cheap.

We still have four sunware panels in operation that are bonded down to the coach roof , but the moveable panels are now solid ones in custom made "bags" and touch wood survived longer than the flexi panels.

 

[Tim Good]

Personally Id avoid the flexi panels

I'd like to but I can only get 200w maximum handing off the back of my goal posts. Then I want to avoid putting things on the deck saloon roof than I can't step on. It would only be a matter of time before something smached them I'm sure. Do I take it that your roof is covered?

 

[macd]

I'd like to but I can only get 200w maximum handing off the back of my goal posts. Then I want to avoid putting things on the deck saloon roof than I can't step on. It would only be a matter of time before something smached them I'm sure. Do I take it that your roof is covered?

Any way to hang them off the rail, forward of you goalie?
Incidentally, I'd echo ribrage's reservations about the longevity of semi-flex panels.

 

[ribrage]

I'd like to but I can only get 200w maximum handing off the back of my goal posts. Then I want to avoid putting things on the deck saloon roof than I can't step on. It would only be a matter of time before something smached them I'm sure. Do I take it that your roof is covered?

Our deck saloon roof has four smaller panels bonded down with sikaflex , they inevitably are shaded a lot of the time ,so the out put is low , they power our 24 volt system which really only operates the windlass which is an infrequent demand so the panels didn't need to be that big.

The flexi panels were in pockets on sun awnings they are now replaced with rigid panels ,as flexi panels don't seem to flex for too often before something breaks inside , anyways we wont replace them with flexi again

 

[LadyInBed]

I put a 10mm box frame round my semi's to give them some ridgegidity but also be lighter than solid frame type.

 

[charles_reed]

Rather than starting in the middle it might be preferable for the OP to first work out his daily power need and start from the beginning.
From this he can derive the optimum size of battery-bank as well as the required input to recharge.
My daily requirement is between 40AH and 80AH (the latter for 40c temperatures testing the fridge compressor).
Whilst I had the 100w wind generator, it did little to meet my daily requirement and I'd suggest anything but a 300 w is a waste of money.
The trouble is that a 300w wind generator seems to cost about £1200, only produce about 10% of that on a regular basis, whereas you can get about 1500 watts of PV panel for the same investment (which will produce about 30% of that power on an ongoing basis).
Hence the suggestion to put as much PV panel on (use the big 24/36v glass domestic ones feeding the batteries through an MPPT controller) as the boat can accommodate.
I did have a 100w wind generator, when I originally left the UK with an 85w PV panel.

Since then PV panels have dropped dramatically in price. I've found the glass units considerably superior to the amorphous "walk-on" semi flexibles, producing about 50% more power from the same area and out-lasting the semi-flexibles which start deteriorating almost immediately and seldom last more than 5 years.
The derivation;- 40-80ah, power budget, 380 ah battery-bank (this is too little, considering you can only get 50% of rated capacity out of lead/acid batteries but I literally cannot fit any more in), 328w PV panels.
In 39N this allows me to remain anchored for 5 days without re-charging, during summer months.

 

[Birdseye]

Bristol > Scotland > Norway > who knows.

Will try and avoid marinas whenever possible so anchoring will be the norm.

And thats an issue with a wind gen - after all, do you chose to anchor in windy or in sheltered places.

I have both wind and solar at the moment. Assuming that I cant afford a real diesel genny, which is in every way the best solution, I would max out the solar and only add a wind gen if the solar output wasnt sufficient. Wind gennies are less reliable being mechanical, and less productive £ for £. Above all they are noisy.

 

[macd]

Above all they are noisy.

No. Above all...literally...they shade your panels
Actually agree with all you write, with the possible exception of somewhere very cloudy. I think Patagonia might qualify.

I'd also suggest that if the OP expects to be spending extended periods under sail, a water generator might be a better bet. Mind you, and as said, you need to be doing an awful lot of miles before that equation makes sense, particularly if you have wind-vane steering, as is the case with northcave.

 

[Tim Good]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Ok I'm sold. I will try and get as much W from solar as I can off the rear arch where I only have 100W currently. Maybe I can then consider a solid panel on the coach roof with an extendable cable to move it around at anchor. I'll then see where I'm at.

I am lucky that my generator is big and reliable but I want to get away from putting more carbon into the atmosphere as I can so that will only run the watermaker.

 

[geem]

No. Above all...literally...they shade your panels
Actually agree with all you write, with the possible exception of somewhere very cloudy. I think Patagonia might qualify.

I'd also suggest that if the OP expects to be spending extended periods under sail, a water generator might be a better bet. Mind you, and as said, you need to be doing an awful lot of miles before that equation makes sense, particularly if you have wind-vane steering, as is the case with northcave.

You can't always use wind-vane steering. Crossing the pong last winter the seaweed was a real problem. It fouled towed generator and self steering. We ended up using the autopilot. The solar was an essential part of our charging strategy.
My view is you need a range of options as there is likely to be problems with one charging source at some time or another.
Our generator dropped an injector so we couldn't use it.

 

[macd]

You can't always use wind-vane steering. Crossing the pong last winter the seaweed was a real problem. It fouled towed generator and self steering. We ended up using the autopilot. The solar was an essential part of our charging strategy.

But if all you have is wind-vane steering, as seems to be the case with the OP, then the energy cost of losing it is zero. And, yes, clearing weed can be a pain. But this is a thread, remember, about collecting energy, not about steering systems. Not that I would wish to impede you from that (relevant) degree of drift.[/QUOTE]

 

[geem]

But if all you have is wind-vane steering, as seems to be the case with the OP, then the energy cost of losing it is zero. And, yes, clearing weed can be a pain. But this is a thread, remember, about collecting energy, not about steering systems. Not that I would wish to impede you from that (relevant) degree of drift.

[/QUOTE]

The point is was making, maybe badly, is that you should consider what happens if you can't use the wind self steering. If you have to use the autopilot you will need lots more power or run the generator. This happened to us and we are glad we had 460w of solar as it really helped. You can't have enough solar

 

[Tim Good]

Thanks again for all the input...

I've started a new thread re. comparisons of marine panels vs. cheaper standard ones. If there is anyone here that has tired both types, I'd appreciate your input.

Another Solara panel to match my existing one is like £800! But it seems you can get 100W panels at a heck of a lot less.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?445512-Marine-vs-Terrestrial-Solar-Panels&p=5529442#post5529442

 

[alexsailor]

I’ve read all the posts about wind generators but I can not decide which model should I buy.
Rutland 914 (913) and Air breeze (Air X??) are very common as I see.
I can’t find in google, web pages of companies that are producing any of those wind generators.
Would really like to see the tech specs. Or even read a test…
Some links or opinions would be very helpful.
Thanks

 

[macd]

I’ve read all the posts about wind generators but I can not decide which model should I buy.
Rutland 914 (913) and Air breeze (Air X??) are very common as I see.
I can’t find in google, web pages of companies that are producing any of those wind generators.
Would really like to see the tech specs. Or even read a test…
Some links or opinions would be very helpful.
Thanks

A quick search produced these links:
http://www.naviclub.com/Test_comparatif_eoliennes_marine.pdf
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/wind-generator-comparison-88333.html
http://windtechniek.nl/Yachting-Monthly.pdf
http://www.uvm.edu/~gflomenh/ENSC195-285-renewable/readings/wind-testPC.html
http://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/f45/wind-generator-which-one-6518.html

The windtechniek link (to an October 2010 YM test) gives company website info.
Some are a little dated, but it's not exactly a field with new models falling over each other annually.

 

[Mistroma]

I’ve read all the posts about wind generators but I can not decide which model should I buy.
Rutland 914 (913) and Air breeze (Air X??) are very common as I see.
I can’t find in google, web pages of companies that are producing any of those wind generators.
Would really like to see the tech specs. Or even read a test…
Some links or opinions would be very helpful.
Thanks

You can get a good idea of relative performance by simply comparing swept area. Rutland has a diameter of around 910mm and Air breeze I saw had 1150mm diameter. That means the Air breeze will produce about 1.6 the Rutland.

Of course one design might be more efficient than another but the difference won't be huge. Rutland point out that their units start to produce output at very low wind speed. Unfortunately, the amount you get around the cut in speed is minute, say 0.1 or 0.2A and the voltage won't be high enough to put anything into the battery unless you have a very good regulator.

Work out swept area for all wind-gens you are considering and check if claimed output seems to be unusually high wrt competitors.

Theoretical constraints keep the power you can extract to quite a low percentage of the amount available. So don't expect a new design to appear with double the efficiency of current models.

So if you find figures for one wind-gen you should be able to get some idea how another design might perform. Your guess might be way out at low speeds but the output won't really be worth having and won't be significant (prob. less than 0.2A).

I assume that your boat is already fitted with as many solar panels as space allows or you wouldn't be considering a wind gen.

 

[Strolls]

Additionally:

Wind turbines, a buyer’s guide - Practical Boat Owner (issue 558) (March 2013) - http://blog.marinfirsat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PBO-Magazine.pdf

 

[Tim Good]

Super wind have since made some adjustments to their regulator which gives improved performance at lower wind speeds.

 

[alexsailor]

Thank you for link.
I guess it is Air breeze marine.
One questuon: Air X, Air breeze, Air 40- are these "the same"?

 

[Solwaycruiser]

Might be worth checking out the Marlec site as they have a new model out. The Rutland 1200 which is a larger model than the 914i. As it is a new model you would have to rely on there published figures for info. It isn't cheap but it looks like the price includes the controller as well.