mainshiptom
Well-Known Member
I dont need a car, but need a boat !
Tom
Tom
Firefly625
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Nobody needs a boat, but people do need cars, so I would forget that linkage.
[/ QUOTE ]
..... obviously you are quite right that boats are not the priority cars are, but buying a car is, for most people the second biggest purchase after a house, unless you are into boats of course.
What my inference was that not an insignificant amount of people are starting to spending money on large purchases, and yes people need cars, but these buyers already have cars that are perfectly serviceable but are still changing them.
I don't believe values of boats will go up dramatically, but I do believe boats priced correctly to today's market will start selling in every increasing amounts. Once that starts then it is a case of supply and demand, and who knows in a few years time 3 years old boats may be at a premium as so few in relation to the market will be around as the boat manufacturers over the last 12/24 months have vastly cut production.
Nobody needs a boat, but people do need cars, so I would forget that linkage.
[/ QUOTE ]
..... obviously you are quite right that boats are not the priority cars are, but buying a car is, for most people the second biggest purchase after a house, unless you are into boats of course.
What my inference was that not an insignificant amount of people are starting to spending money on large purchases, and yes people need cars, but these buyers already have cars that are perfectly serviceable but are still changing them.
I don't believe values of boats will go up dramatically, but I do believe boats priced correctly to today's market will start selling in every increasing amounts. Once that starts then it is a case of supply and demand, and who knows in a few years time 3 years old boats may be at a premium as so few in relation to the market will be around as the boat manufacturers over the last 12/24 months have vastly cut production.
asteven221
Well-Known Member
I have been looking around at boats in the range £120k to £150k. I keep my old MBM etc... and went back to them to research the types of boat I was thinking about buying i.e. Princess/Fairline flybridge etc.....
Interestingly, I noticed that the models of boats I am considering are getting advertised today at almost the same price as they were back then. FYI I am looking at MBM issues around 2000 and many of the boats advertised are built from 1992 to about 1998.
That seems a bit odd given that they are now obviously about nine years older. Even if a potential buyer makes an offer of say 15% below the asking price, it is likely that back in 2000 they would probably have made the same offer.
On face value it would seem that despite what the doomsday people say, boats still seem to represent a pretty good way of spending your money with a reasonable chance that you will get close to your money back many years later - credit crunch or no credit crunch. If my logic is flawed, no doubt someone will be along soon to let me know!
Interestingly, I noticed that the models of boats I am considering are getting advertised today at almost the same price as they were back then. FYI I am looking at MBM issues around 2000 and many of the boats advertised are built from 1992 to about 1998.
That seems a bit odd given that they are now obviously about nine years older. Even if a potential buyer makes an offer of say 15% below the asking price, it is likely that back in 2000 they would probably have made the same offer.
On face value it would seem that despite what the doomsday people say, boats still seem to represent a pretty good way of spending your money with a reasonable chance that you will get close to your money back many years later - credit crunch or no credit crunch. If my logic is flawed, no doubt someone will be along soon to let me know!
gjgm
Well-Known Member
well, you get the nominal back, but the nominal has depreciated substantially in real value the meantime. Still, in your case, at least the nominals havent fallen too !
As long as it brings pleasure, that sounds good to me. If one gets more pleasure from the bank vault, I guess one wouldnt own a boat /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
As long as it brings pleasure, that sounds good to me. If one gets more pleasure from the bank vault, I guess one wouldnt own a boat /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
ari
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I
Interestingly, I noticed that the models of boats I am considering are getting advertised today at almost the same price as they were back then. FYI I am looking at MBM issues around 2000 and many of the boats advertised are built from 1992 to about 1998.
[/ QUOTE ]
People are certainly still asking the same sort of money. That's because Mr. Fairline Corniche picks up the magazine and see's other ones for £60K, thinks "cor that's good, that's what I paid10 years ago" and sticks his up for the same. Then along comes the next Corniche seller, see's that one and £60K, thinks "cor, that's good..."
Achieved prices, however, are almost certainly a different kettle of mackerel...
I
Interestingly, I noticed that the models of boats I am considering are getting advertised today at almost the same price as they were back then. FYI I am looking at MBM issues around 2000 and many of the boats advertised are built from 1992 to about 1998.
[/ QUOTE ]
People are certainly still asking the same sort of money. That's because Mr. Fairline Corniche picks up the magazine and see's other ones for £60K, thinks "cor that's good, that's what I paid10 years ago" and sticks his up for the same. Then along comes the next Corniche seller, see's that one and £60K, thinks "cor, that's good..."
Achieved prices, however, are almost certainly a different kettle of mackerel...
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Thanks for everybody's comments. It is my intention to move to a bigger boat, probably a Ferretti 53/530 and, yes those posters who said that it's the price to change that matters are correct. I probably should have taken the low offer I received and done the same to another seller. FWIW, I think the broker who suggested that the market will never be like it was is probably right. Demand for new boats, which underpins the secondhand market, will take years to return to the levels seen 2 years ago if it ever does at all. So, if anyone wants a good used Ferretti 46, never raced or rallied, you know where to find me /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
asteven221
Well-Known Member
[quote
People are certainly still asking the same sort of money. That's because Mr. Fairline Corniche picks up the magazine and see's other ones for £60K, thinks "cor that's good, that's what I paid10 years ago" and sticks his up for the same. Then along comes the next Corniche seller, see's that one and £60K, thinks "cor, that's good..."
Achieved prices, however, are almost certainly a different kettle of mackerel...
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, but my thinking is this. A boat is advertised in Y2000 for £150k and someone comes along and offers £130k and gets the boat. 4 years later they see that their model of boat is still being advertised for £150k, so they advertise it for £150k. Someone then comes along and offers £130k...... and so it goes on.
If as you suggest that people are getting boats at considerably less than the asking price then in the scenario I suggest the first advert in Y2000 is for £150k and sells at £130k. The second advert is for £150k and sells for say £115K, then the 3rd advert is for £150k and it sells at £100k.
You would think that market forces would dictate that at some point boats would be advertised with a declining "for sale" figure as they get older. That would be in line with what people are actually selling them for. You wouldn't even think about advertising your 5 year old BMW at the same price as a two year old one, even if you were planning to accept the going rate for a 5 year old one. So why are boats different?
It's an interesting subject as boats seem to me to be (to an extent) immune from tradditional market forces and depreciation. Is it because they are intrinsically longer lasting, old ones look pretty much the same as new ones and owners take a pride in looking after them. I know that's a generalisation but I mention it FWIW.
Maybe I should will offer a £40k for that Princess 440 I fancied as that is all it can possibly be worth!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
People are certainly still asking the same sort of money. That's because Mr. Fairline Corniche picks up the magazine and see's other ones for £60K, thinks "cor that's good, that's what I paid10 years ago" and sticks his up for the same. Then along comes the next Corniche seller, see's that one and £60K, thinks "cor, that's good..."
Achieved prices, however, are almost certainly a different kettle of mackerel...
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, but my thinking is this. A boat is advertised in Y2000 for £150k and someone comes along and offers £130k and gets the boat. 4 years later they see that their model of boat is still being advertised for £150k, so they advertise it for £150k. Someone then comes along and offers £130k...... and so it goes on.
If as you suggest that people are getting boats at considerably less than the asking price then in the scenario I suggest the first advert in Y2000 is for £150k and sells at £130k. The second advert is for £150k and sells for say £115K, then the 3rd advert is for £150k and it sells at £100k.
You would think that market forces would dictate that at some point boats would be advertised with a declining "for sale" figure as they get older. That would be in line with what people are actually selling them for. You wouldn't even think about advertising your 5 year old BMW at the same price as a two year old one, even if you were planning to accept the going rate for a 5 year old one. So why are boats different?
It's an interesting subject as boats seem to me to be (to an extent) immune from tradditional market forces and depreciation. Is it because they are intrinsically longer lasting, old ones look pretty much the same as new ones and owners take a pride in looking after them. I know that's a generalisation but I mention it FWIW.
Maybe I should will offer a £40k for that Princess 440 I fancied as that is all it can possibly be worth!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
ari
Well-Known Member
I think what you say makes a lot of sense. My take on it is that (to use my example) there always did seem to be someone who, if you waited long enough, would pay close to that £60K for a Corniche because he'd use the same source of information (well that's what they're all asking so I'll make an offer based on that).
However I suspect that now there's a lot more choice, and there'll always be something else that's tempting, so to persuade him that the 20 year old Corniche is still worth £60K when there's newer more modern stuff for the same or less (Sealine 330's and F33's for example are starting to get down forward that sort of area now) is a tall order.
So in other words current trading conditions are starting to force some realism into the market.
Long term (to return to the original point) once Sealine 330's and F33's start to be seen at £70-90K or even less and Corniches have to start dropping to £40-50K (say) then I don't see them "recovering" back up to £60K again when (if!) things improve.
So in other words I think the traditional prices are now gone, and although boat trading may become easier, we'll see a new paradigm in boat prices.
However I suspect that now there's a lot more choice, and there'll always be something else that's tempting, so to persuade him that the 20 year old Corniche is still worth £60K when there's newer more modern stuff for the same or less (Sealine 330's and F33's for example are starting to get down forward that sort of area now) is a tall order.
So in other words current trading conditions are starting to force some realism into the market.
Long term (to return to the original point) once Sealine 330's and F33's start to be seen at £70-90K or even less and Corniches have to start dropping to £40-50K (say) then I don't see them "recovering" back up to £60K again when (if!) things improve.
So in other words I think the traditional prices are now gone, and although boat trading may become easier, we'll see a new paradigm in boat prices.
oceanfroggie
Well-Known Member
The real value is based on the quality of usage we get out of our boats.
Sundays_Child
Well-Known Member
In reality the real value is based on the *perceived* quality of usage (especially to people getting into boating, at whatever level).
I've made a significant effort to get on the boat more. My perceived enjoyment value became undermined by my actual. Nothing to do with not enjoying the boat, just not being on it enough.
So, you're right, the value has shot up!
(written from the boat on a totally silent and unusually starry night)
I've made a significant effort to get on the boat more. My perceived enjoyment value became undermined by my actual. Nothing to do with not enjoying the boat, just not being on it enough.
So, you're right, the value has shot up!
(written from the boat on a totally silent and unusually starry night)
Nautorius
Well-Known Member
Nautorius
Well-Known Member
Mike,
There are so many factors at the moment affecting the market that I think we are in a short term blip. I expect the prices to stabilise next year but the shear number of boats on the market, still lots of distressed sales and the discounts on new boats means 2009 is a misserable year if you are selling up.
I always bought boats on credit of about 75-80% but after the problems with employment last year now want to buy for cash so I am saving up and need to hold off a bit. No doubt many others feel the same as well.
Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
There are so many factors at the moment affecting the market that I think we are in a short term blip. I expect the prices to stabilise next year but the shear number of boats on the market, still lots of distressed sales and the discounts on new boats means 2009 is a misserable year if you are selling up.
I always bought boats on credit of about 75-80% but after the problems with employment last year now want to buy for cash so I am saving up and need to hold off a bit. No doubt many others feel the same as well.
Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Renegade_Master
Well-Known Member
And the one I've got has new engines KAD300's
