Why so few bilge keel yachts?

[Gludy]

A friend of mine is wanting to buy a sailing boat and because its the Bristol Channel with lots of small harbours wants to buy a bilge keel boat.

It is surprising how few of these are now being made.

What is the disadvantage of having a bilge keel boat?

Is it a performance sacrifice?

 

[richardbrennan]

I think, although others may dispute this, that in general the performance of bilge keel yachts is not quite as sharp as their fin keel alternatives especially to windward. However, I think the paucity of bilge keelers now being made is simply a reflection of the demise of the british boat building industry, especially at the smaller end of the market, as bilge keelers were always very much a british phenomina as the Scandanavians don't have tides and the French seem to prefer lifting keels. In the past builders such as Westerley and Moody built bilge keelers, but Westerley are no more and Moody are now Hanse and have moved very much up in size.

 

[David_Jersey]

A friend of mine is wanting to buy a sailing boat and because its the Bristol Channel with lots of small harbours wants to buy a bilge keel boat.

It is surprising how few of these are now being made.

What is the disadvantage of having a bilge keel boat?

Is it a performance sacrifice?

I think the general answer is "yes" to a performance sacrifice, but an exact answer depends on the vessel design itself. A lot (most?) of the B/k boats were built for the family / coastal cruising market, and the boat themselves were designed accordingly - therefore some would simply not be fast no matter what keel(s) they had on . Whereas on others the difference will be more minimal.

Depending on the bottom your freind will be drying on, the French wing keelers that also balance on twin rudders (I forget their name ) I suspect (ie I don't know!) will provide a higher performance than a more traditional 1970's style bilge keeler. Otherwise a lifting keel - I think an Ovni would be at the top of my list

I suspect the rise of Marinas impacted heavily on the demand for new build Bilge Keelers........but always seems to be a demand for s/h ones.

 

[Koeketiene]

What is the disadvantage of having a bilge keel boat?

Is it a performance sacrifice?

To windward you end up sailing sideways.

On the East Coast (where we sail) a bilge keeler would make perfect sense; yet, I haven't got one as I'm unwilling to take the performance hit.

That said, there's a French builder around (RM IIRC) that's supposed to build quite decently sailing bilge keelers.

 

[snowleopard]

In the past, bilge keels were most often seen on tubby low-performance boats and many believed the performance problems were caused by the keels where in reality they were only part of the problem.

Hunter used to make a big thing about their 'twin fin' designs which they claimed were almost as efficient as the fin keel versions of their boats.

When properly configured with a suitable shape and the keels angled outwards so the lee foil is vertical when at a normal angle of heel, they shouldn't give any more leeway than a single keel. In light airs their will be some loss from the extra wetted surface but it would be hard to detect.

The biggest factor against them is prejudice. See previous discussions on other non-standard designs, e.g. unstayed rigs.

 

[Boathook]

I'm all for others having deep finned boats. This leaves me with more room in the shallows, especially for anchoring !!

 

[jenku]

I'm all for others having deep finned boats. This leaves me with more room in the shallows, especially for anchoring !!

Exactly! And they should put deep fins on all the mobos as well!

 

[DJE]

I'm all for others having deep finned boats. This leaves me with more room in the shallows, especially for anchoring !!

I'm with you on this. Mine sails pretty well and she does this:-

 

[jason -and the arguenauts]

A friend of mine is wanting to buy a sailing boat and because its the Bristol Channel with lots of small harbours wants to buy a bilge keel boat.

It is surprising how few of these are now being made.

What is the disadvantage of having a bilge keel boat?

Is it a performance sacrifice?

I'm in the Bristol channel and my last boat was a bilge keeler. I used to race it in a mixed fleet of bilge and fin keeled inc cruiser racers like Sigma 33. Doing this is the only way you will get a real appreciation of the differences in performance, fin to bilge.

The difference in speed is very little indeed. The difference in pointing ability is more significant and in a few races with low wind speeds and the usual channel tides, the bilge keelers would fail to make the mark on a beat to windward whilst the fins would do so. It might only be 5 to 10 degree difference but on the race ciruit it matters.

In cruising the difference is totally irrelevant and indeed my present fin keeler is more of a problem because all our ports dry out. So for cruising I wouldnt consider a fin in the channel but for racing its different.

Why are so few made? The UK tide conditions mean a lot of drying harbours with far fewer elsewhere. Since we no longer make mass produced boats in the UK, there are no manufacturers withg the motivation to address the issue.

Warn your pal against considering a drop keeler. There is just too much industrial rubbish / shopping trollies / old cars etc in the channel to be happy about a boat that puts its hull on the mud.

P.S. I ought to add that my old bilge keeler was one of the last made and with far better performance than the old Westerlies, Colvic, MacWesters etc. Some of these sail like shopping trollies.

 

[colvic987]

Lovely boat you have there (close encounter), the photo of you sailing is a real cracker..

 

[sailorman]

What is the disadvantage of having a bilge keel boat?

Yes, they dont go to windward
quick exit stage left

 

[carrswood]

gret boat those BK Sadlers
as is the Moody 31, Konsort et al
don't dismiss a drop keel Ben Oceanis 311 either

 

[misterg]

A friend of mine is wanting to buy a sailing boat and because its the Bristol Channel with lots of small harbours wants to buy a bilge keel boat.

If the friend is looking for a new boat, it's worth them knowing that a lot of the British Hunter designs are being produced again by Lauren Marine - including the Channel 31 - cracking boat IMHO.

(No commercial connections, etc.)

Andy

 

[Otter]

Hunter rigged fin and B/K versions of one of the Channel designs and invited the yachting press to come along and try and guess which was which - in a sort of blind tasting. The write up in YM was clear that you couldn't tell them apart; but as has been said, most b/keelers are old tubs that would give any keel a bad rep for windward work.

 

[Mavis]

I went through this process when deciding on my current boat, a Sadler 26. It was a no brainer really as my home harbour here at Looe dries out at low tide, it had to be a twin.

There is no doubt that a fin performs better but the real difference really depends on what boat you have and especially how you sail her. I still race dinghys (Redwings) here at Looe twice a week and I reckon that when we are out in the Sadler we out sail and out point most yachts of her size (and bigger). This is simply because after years of racing it is hard to get out of the habit of keeping her in the groove and 'racing' every boat you come across. It is true that the Sadlers twin keels are argubaly better (without upsetting anyone) than the short stubby bilge keels you see around, so your friend ought to do his homework before he makes his decision on which boat he decides on.

ooh, and the only thing I hate is the slapping of the windward keel in certain conditions. But once you have realised that you have not just hit a whale! then you soon get used to it.

 

[DJE]

Lovely boat you have there (close encounter), the photo of you sailing is a real cracker..

Thanks, all compliments gratefully accepted. There is a good article here about keel choice in Sadlers but many of the points made have more general application.

 

[lenseman]

I'm with you on this. Mine sails pretty well and she does this:-

I see your yacht is not potty trained yet?

 

[exfinnsailor]

What about a Lift Keel

What about a Lift Keel .. All the benefits of a deep keel .. Just less hassel .. Beneteau 323 .. 311 .. Etc .. And ours does what Lensemans does .. Just not worked out how to put the pics on yet ..

 

[savageseadog]

Brand New 34 footer for sale here

http://www.apolloduck.com/display.phtml?aid=109660

 

[jason -and the arguenauts]

What about a Lift Keel .. All the benefits of a deep keel .. Just less hassel .. Beneteau 323 .. 311 .. Etc .. And ours does what Lensemans does .. Just not worked out how to put the pics on yet ..

Less stable than a deep keel, 100 turns on the winch to wind up the keel, hull in close proximity to the bottom when dried out, drop keel fills with mud/pebbles and jams.

I once looked at one for the Bristol channel and both Benny and Jeanneau to their credit said their lift keelers werent suitable for a drying mooring of the sort you find in the channel - they were shoal draft and occasional take to the ground when you knew the ground concerned was clean..

The Feeling lift keeler was a better proposition with a bigger stub keel underneath. The Southerly was better still, but having dried out my boats in the channel for the last 15 years I wouldnt go near a drop keeler. Interestingly, none of the 100 boats in our club are drop keelers either which should say something.