DavidJ
Well-known member
Very good point. It’s something I’m starting to realise.
Why is my boat not selling in Spain
- Thread starter DavidJ
- Start date
Portofino
Well-known member
If it’s any consultation its basically the price and perceived marque in there the buyers eyes .
When I listed my Porto 35 there were 7 others scattered throughout the Med / U.K. Mine was a minter and full spec and S/Sker maintained so a thick file .The engines / drives were franchised maintained by VP .
Of the 7 two were mingers so I positioned mine 3 rd from the bottom price wise just above the mingers .The spread was around 40 K from top to bottom .
Sold , gone on in what felt like 30 seconds , well 3 weeks , listed end of Season expecting the winter , hoping by Easter rid .I never got to say good bye , even S / Skr rented a storage unit and removed all our crap / personal clothes etc .
We added approx €2 K , for the survey chip .This is the buyers wanting his money back ….it’s a loss of face kinda thing and it i n the heady testosterone haggle i play the buyer so he feels he gets his money back .There’s always something .
So ( after sitting down with the S/Skr ) exactly what I wanted only in the end .
Your price must be high needs to be in the lower quartile to sell……quickly.
When I listed my Porto 35 there were 7 others scattered throughout the Med / U.K. Mine was a minter and full spec and S/Sker maintained so a thick file .The engines / drives were franchised maintained by VP .
Of the 7 two were mingers so I positioned mine 3 rd from the bottom price wise just above the mingers .The spread was around 40 K from top to bottom .
Sold , gone on in what felt like 30 seconds , well 3 weeks , listed end of Season expecting the winter , hoping by Easter rid .I never got to say good bye , even S / Skr rented a storage unit and removed all our crap / personal clothes etc .
We added approx €2 K , for the survey chip .This is the buyers wanting his money back ….it’s a loss of face kinda thing and it i n the heady testosterone haggle i play the buyer so he feels he gets his money back .There’s always something .
So ( after sitting down with the S/Skr ) exactly what I wanted only in the end .
Your price must be high needs to be in the lower quartile to sell……quickly.
jakew009
Well-known member
The reality is yours is currently at the top end of the market price wise (but I'm sure you already know that and have your reasons). There appears to only be 1 other on the market more expensive than yours and all the rest are around 90-100k (Sealine S37 boats for sale | Boats and Outboards or Used Sealine S37 for sale | TheYachtMarket).
Anyone buying your one in Spain is going to look at this one: Sealine 37 2001 Used Boat for Sale in Campania, Italy which is 34k less for a similar looking boat.
The way I look at it when selling a boat privately is you need to price it the same as cheapest boat on the market that another buyer would put in the same category as yours. And if you want it to sell quickly you need to make sure it's in better condition than all the others.
P.s. I know how annoying it is. If I had sold my previous boat 18 months earlier I'd have got 10k more. But I didn't and the market has taken a dump this year imo.
julians
Well-known member
As well as all the above ,don't compare the prices of boats in the UK to your boat, the UK market is now a completely different market to to where yours is and prices will vary accordingly.
Price yours against other similar boats in the same country as yours is currently located.
Price yours against other similar boats in the same country as yours is currently located.
petem
Well-known member
I think there's a few things that are working against you...
1) Sealine perhaps doesn't have the same brand awareness that other brands have in Spain
2) You're in an area of Spain that won't allow buyers to view multiple boats in the same visiting trip (unlike Mallorca for instance)
3) The market is pretty dead due to high interest rates and general lack of confidence in the economy.
I think your idea of bringing it back to the UK is a good one. I wouldn't have thought there aren't many boats making that trip on the back of a lorry so I would negotiate hard with the hauliers for a back load.
1) Sealine perhaps doesn't have the same brand awareness that other brands have in Spain
2) You're in an area of Spain that won't allow buyers to view multiple boats in the same visiting trip (unlike Mallorca for instance)
3) The market is pretty dead due to high interest rates and general lack of confidence in the economy.
I think your idea of bringing it back to the UK is a good one. I wouldn't have thought there aren't many boats making that trip on the back of a lorry so I would negotiate hard with the hauliers for a back load.
DavidJ
Well-known member
I really appreciate the comments that you are all contributing and it’s a rare phenomenon that you are all right, I’m overpriced.
There are reasons why I’m high eg significant refurbishment of cockpit/cabin, navigation upgrades, new engine fire extinguishers blah, blah, blah but there are no takers.
I’ve done a scatter diagram £’s v years of available S37’s mostly in the UK
…..and of course they are all unsold.
Some of the lower ones have Mercruser engines or AQAD41’s which are less popular so I don’t need to pitch myself down there.
What does the panel consider a reasonable start point?
There are reasons why I’m high eg significant refurbishment of cockpit/cabin, navigation upgrades, new engine fire extinguishers blah, blah, blah but there are no takers.
I’ve done a scatter diagram £’s v years of available S37’s mostly in the UK
…..and of course they are all unsold.
Some of the lower ones have Mercruser engines or AQAD41’s which are less popular so I don’t need to pitch myself down there.
What does the panel consider a reasonable start point?
greeny
Well-known member
Looking at your diagram, 4 prices stand high for me. The top 1999 price, top 2000 price, top 2001 price and your price.
Take those away and then plot a median. That leaves me with a price to ask of around 100k for yours maybe 105k. This is in uk of course.
Have you done the same exercise in Spain? It may show why you've had little interest.
Take those away and then plot a median. That leaves me with a price to ask of around 100k for yours maybe 105k. This is in uk of course.
Have you done the same exercise in Spain? It may show why you've had little interest.
DavidJ
Well-known member
You know, with the boat back in the UK I would go with that.
I don’t have the data for Spain, in fact in my 20 years in the Med I’ve never seen another S37
jakew009
Well-known member
I suppose you also have to ask yourself how much you want to sell it / how much it’s going to cost to keep for another 12 months if it doesn’t sell.
I don’t know the market for these at all, but it looks like there are plenty for sale and they have all been on the market for a while (you can get an idea of how old the listings are by looking at the ID number in the URL… and compare it to other boats.)
This one looks quite competitive priced: 2001 Sealine S37 Motor Yacht for sale - YachtWorld
Zing
Well-known member
My observation is that boats sell quickly when they are cheap. The expensive ones stay on the market unsold for years and years. Actually, I think it’s only the cheap ones that sell. After all, if you were not bothered about price you would buy new and price for a used boat is almost everything.
westernman
Well-known member
You need to do it for Spain. In particular, you need to check for boats which actually sold. I don't know how to do that.
If there is not enough data, then you need to find some comparable boats which do sell in Spain and compare vs that.
Just remember, that there are always boats "up for sale" but are not really up for sale. E.g. the wife says get rid of the boat, hubby says OK, but we will use it until sold and puts it up for sale for an unrealistic price with no intention whatsoever of actually selling it.
ChromeDome
Well-known member
Just a view from my angle:
It's a turbulent property market, interest rates are rising, and people are cautious with money. The willingness to take financial risk is not great. Logically, there are fewer buyers who want a boat far from home than nearby.
Edit:
It's commonly believed that boats from southern Europe have a hard life in salt and sun, 12 months a year, and that maintenance is not up to northern standards.
"Original condition" can mean that the boat has hardly been maintained since new.
When you advertise internationally, some customers will not expect the same as UK buyers. In many countries, brokers are high-priced ad agents who do little else, and the deal itself, with its risks, rights and obligations, is with a lot of seller effort. These brokers often make sellers decide to handle it all themselves - buyers count on this.
Identical boats vary significantly in price, as you've noticed, and buyers from countries where the deal is DIY expect room for negotiation.
It may be an ok signal to write in the advert that bids are accepted and perhaps "delivery can be arranged".
It doesn't look like your boat is showing up on many advert sites - this should be something you or your broker is working on. SEO (Search Engine Optimization) is the term.
One of the services that harvest adverts everywhere is scanboat.com. It currently finds two S37s - yours is not among them (you can add/create it yourself).
It's a turbulent property market, interest rates are rising, and people are cautious with money. The willingness to take financial risk is not great. Logically, there are fewer buyers who want a boat far from home than nearby.
Edit:
It's commonly believed that boats from southern Europe have a hard life in salt and sun, 12 months a year, and that maintenance is not up to northern standards.
"Original condition" can mean that the boat has hardly been maintained since new.
When you advertise internationally, some customers will not expect the same as UK buyers. In many countries, brokers are high-priced ad agents who do little else, and the deal itself, with its risks, rights and obligations, is with a lot of seller effort. These brokers often make sellers decide to handle it all themselves - buyers count on this.
Identical boats vary significantly in price, as you've noticed, and buyers from countries where the deal is DIY expect room for negotiation.
It may be an ok signal to write in the advert that bids are accepted and perhaps "delivery can be arranged".
It doesn't look like your boat is showing up on many advert sites - this should be something you or your broker is working on. SEO (Search Engine Optimization) is the term.
One of the services that harvest adverts everywhere is scanboat.com. It currently finds two S37s - yours is not among them (you can add/create it yourself).
Last edited:
ashtead
Well-known member
There is I believe a used boat show at Deacons running in Sept which might have space - seems to me you are overpriced but maybe speak to a few uk brokers like Clipper -it’s not a Bavaria of course but might attract upscaling Bav customers. Based on your chart there seem to be many Sealine out there so perhaps not cache of other brands. I suppose another point is whether you want cash in £ or€ which might influence some?
DavidJ
Well-known member
Thanks
There do seem to be a lot of S37’s out there. They did make 250 of them though (earlier ones called the Flamenco 37)
I’ll check of Deacons
I’m looking at Burton Waters at the moment. They know their Sealines and very common for people to trade up staying in the brand. I’m on my 3rd, I know some on their 5th
Thanks
jakew009
Well-known member
Before you bring it home why don't you advertise it with an English broker in Spain at an £80k asking price and make it clear in the ad you are a very motivated seller. You might be surprised how fast it sells.
Moonbeam
Active member
I agree with jakew009. I think you might be better off selling in Spain with a Broker you trust at a discount price if that's what it takes.
Why? Well, while you are completely correct about Returned Goods Relief (RGR) with regards to VAT... it does seem to be a complex area. I just did a google and found the following article (which may already be out of date) Guide to Returned Good Relief – Recreational Pleasure Craft - PKF Francis Clark This article does not make for clear reading with if's and buts all over the place. I think you need to make sure (via HMRC website) of your particular circumstances with regards to bringing the boat back for re-sale. I thought that I read somewhere else that if you use RGR, then you can not re-sell in the UK market for 'x' mount of months. But that might be incorrect or out of date.
My point is, I am currently looking to buy a power boat in the UK in your price bracket. If there were two examples for sale, side by side, similar spec, condition, price etc. I would choose the one that's been in the UK all it's life, or at least returned to the UK pre-brexit. I would not be keen to buy a boat that's just returned from the EU under RGR, no matter how much the broker insisted it was fine. I would want satisfactory paperwork and to check for myself with HMRC, and as that will all be a pain, I would choose another boat unless there was a compelling reason (eg very cheap) to buy the RGR example.
Obviously other buyers might be more relaxed on this, but I just wanted to give you my take as a current buyer in the UK.
Why? Well, while you are completely correct about Returned Goods Relief (RGR) with regards to VAT... it does seem to be a complex area. I just did a google and found the following article (which may already be out of date) Guide to Returned Good Relief – Recreational Pleasure Craft - PKF Francis Clark This article does not make for clear reading with if's and buts all over the place. I think you need to make sure (via HMRC website) of your particular circumstances with regards to bringing the boat back for re-sale. I thought that I read somewhere else that if you use RGR, then you can not re-sell in the UK market for 'x' mount of months. But that might be incorrect or out of date.
My point is, I am currently looking to buy a power boat in the UK in your price bracket. If there were two examples for sale, side by side, similar spec, condition, price etc. I would choose the one that's been in the UK all it's life, or at least returned to the UK pre-brexit. I would not be keen to buy a boat that's just returned from the EU under RGR, no matter how much the broker insisted it was fine. I would want satisfactory paperwork and to check for myself with HMRC, and as that will all be a pain, I would choose another boat unless there was a compelling reason (eg very cheap) to buy the RGR example.
Obviously other buyers might be more relaxed on this, but I just wanted to give you my take as a current buyer in the UK.
DavidJ
Well-known member
You make a good point
However I’ve been in touch with Peters & May and have had all my paperwork cleared by them. The final say is with the HMRC of course but I’m relaxed as far as that bit of the “coming home” is concerned
Thanks for your link
Cheers
David
Moonbeam
Active member
Sounds good, I hope it goes well for you. Out of interest, did Peters & May advise on if you had to keep the boat in the UK for 'x' months after RGR before placing on the UK market? As I say, something I read somewhere, but probably incorrect or out of date.
Tranona
Well-known member
On the point of reselling you are perhaps confusing RGR with Returning Residents relief which does have a constraint on resale. However RGR does not. Simply declaring the boat to customs is sufficient for RGR and the boat can be sold immediately.
DavidJ
Well-known member
Just to check I’ve sent a message to Peters & May. Not had a reply yet