Why are YBW in love with Contessas?

[JumbleDuck]

I don't think you can question the seaworthiness of the Pogo designs. It's been proven many times over. Just serves as an example of how much things have moved on since the Contessa 32. Not everyone likes the direction things have moved on in, but the people doing the innovating, and their customers don't seem to care. I know which boat I'd rather sail to Greenland in, and it would be the Pogo every time.

This is more or less the discussion which Patrick Ellam kicked off when he commissioned Sopranino more than sixty years ago and proved pretty comprehensively that a good lightweight boat, can be just as seaworthy as a heavier design. Pogos and the like are very much the heirs of Sopranino.

 

[flaming]

To me the interesting thing about the CO32 is how the question now being asked is this one.

Before it gets too bitchy in here can I ask again which current production boats of 32' length you would consider suitable to short/single hand to Greenland? So far the only suggestion offered is the Finngulf 33. There must be others?
It's a serious question because if I ever get round to buying my own boat that's what I would be looking for.

But the CO32 was of course designed first and foremost as a cruiser racer. The Adventure Sailing reputation only came later, and there is no doubt that it has a standout reputation for high latitudes sailing.

Sailing a 32 footer shorthanded to Greenland is about as niche a requirement as you could possibly ask for. So to suggest that there should be productions boats out there to fulfill this need is a bit unrealistic, and I think misses the biggest change in yacht design since the CO32 was new. Which is simply that now you have a much wider range of boats available, unlike in the 70s when most production boats were trying to be all things to all people. So the CO32 was a racer. And a cruiser. And an Ocean sailor.

These days you don't get all that in one package, for the simple reason that by having all of that in one package it's not really all that great at any of them. Have a look at the X-yachts Xp33 and the Bavaria 33 if you don't believe me.
One is a great boat for a couple, or a couple of couples, to go cruising in for a week. The other is a fabulous boat for Cowes week. Both would be seriously flawed if asked to do the other task. And neither would be very good for an Atlantic circuit.

 

[Colvic Watson]

How about the Xc-35 as a best of both? Looks good, masses of room, great handling and safe for a cruise through nasty weather

View attachment 42044

 

[greggron]

Given its lineage, can anyone tell me how the Sadler 32 compares with the Co32 and is the Sadler 34 better again or not.

 

[Daydream believer]

Probably the same reason most British yards don't produce any more- cost?

Folk would rather buy a cheaply made, floppy cavern with apartment like interiors to motor between marinas with the mainsail sheeted hard amidships ,than a properly built boat that will sail.

My boat ( 31 ft) was cheaper than a Contessa (built new at the same year) & is faster, ( Accepted I have only sailed against a couple) more room, better layout, better headroom, far better handling, fairly stiff in a blow & people often comment about it being a nice looking yacht. It handled well in a F9- albeit for only 12 hours- handles F8 reasonably well & I certainly feel very safe in it.
But you ( I assume) & others would label it an AWB. Unfortunately it was not built in the UK.

I think that it is a lot better than a Contessa, it certainly suits me, but as others have said - designs & requirements of the public move on . That being said I would object to it being labelled "a cheaply made, floppy cavern". I am sure others might object to their yachts being labelled in the same way as well. It is an all embracing statement made, perhaps, by someone who may be a little prejudiced

In reply to the question of boats being as good as the Contessa - I have never sailed a Halberg Rassey but the 31 looks a beautiful boat & I bet, that with the same skill of sailor, one would have survived the Fastnet. Lets not forget that the Contessa sailors that sailed in the disaster year were extremely good sailors.

 

[Daydream believer]

And btw, the Sadler 34 is the logical, progressive development of the Co26. Evolution..You dont get the one without the painful learning curve.. Old mini or new "call me massive'' Mini traveller anyone?

Why is it "logical" the 26 has a long keel as did lots of boats of the era. The Sadler 34 has fin & skeg, like the Contessa 32. Nothing like the 26
Who developed the fin & skeg first?- Sparkman & Stephens I believe, ( don't shout me down if wrong re that it was along time ago!!) & they had no contact or design input ( that I am aware of) with Sadler

 

[JumbleDuck]

Given its lineage, can anyone tell me how the Sadler 32 compares with the Co32 and is the Sadler 34 better again or not.

Sadler 34: 16 minutes/hour on the Clyde
Sadler 32: 18.25
Contessa 32: 18.5

Less is faster (a Centaur gets 26 minutes/hour) so that puts the Sadler 32 and Contessa 32 very close and the Sadler 34 a wee bit ahead.

http://www.cyca-online.org.uk/cgi-bin/CSV_search.pl

 

[KellysEye]

>My boat ( 31 ft) was cheaper than a Contessa (built new at the same year) & is faster

And what was it since you are singing it's praises?

 

[robmcg]

Now having read the Contessa article that the OP is referring to, I must admit I don't think it was over the top in any way. If you want an example of a more sycophantic boat review then the OP and others should be more outraged by the Starlight 35 review back in the April issue. According to that review, it really could do no wrong!
Before anyone asks, I happen to really like the Contessa and the Starlight in equal measure.

 

[doug748]

.......A forumite's apoplectic late-night pro-French responses to my idea of updating the Co32's interior, seemed to me wilfully narrow-minded. I was thinking that this very pretty boat could be gutted and refitted to provide almost luxurious accommodation for a couple, whilst retaining its charming character and individuality...

...what could be further from that, than the "cram 'em in" interiors of recent generations of continental AWBs? Other than in volume, how were they any kind of improvement?
....

A number of Contessa 32s have been changed internally but this generally puts them out of class for racing. Even if this is of no concern, it potentially affects resale value so people are wary about doing it.

You really have to consider shifting the heads. I think putting the thunderbox forward is a useful idea but you then lose the double berth and headroom is even less. I have been aboard a factory built boat with aft heads. The compartment was usable, just, but it looked a though someone had smuggled a wardrobe on board. I have also seen drawings of a boat where the whole C shaped dinette has been raised into a permanent double bunk with huge stowage underneath and fitted drawers. It looked well done but more in scale with a 50 foot boat and, of course, it took away the table, etc.

More drastic changes could mean a new deck moulding, an extra 4 in in the topsides would free up a good deal of space. Without the need to cater for racers you could, no doubt, make the cockpit shorter and the coachroof longer. In the end you have almost daydreamed yourself a new boat a bit in the image of the Sadler. Accommodation wise, the game changer is when you have sufficient volume to create an aft cabin / heads but even then you lose the comfy chart table and many people are not fond of linear galleys. Anyway I suspect it would not be possible on the hull without making it look a overburdened in the manner of some wooden Folkboats which were made over for reasons of interior space.

On balance the existing set up works tolerably well, which is probably why it has become the default on small boats of the type.

 

[Blueboatman]

Why is it "logical" the 26 has a long keel as did lots of boats of the era. The Sadler 34 has fin & skeg, like the Contessa 32. Nothing like the 26
Who developed the fin & skeg first?- Sparkman & Stephens I believe, ( don't shout me down if wrong re that it was along time ago!!) & they had no contact or design input ( that I am aware of) with Sadler

Golly. Er quite. The Co 26 is/was a longkeeler. The CO26 was a Folkboat derivative..As were loads of 60s GRP boats at the time..

However..With useful engineering from the ex-war tank designer Sadler and some cunning production refinement from adventurous ex wood boatbuilder Rogers, they were desired boats....
They then did the 32, with an emphasis on balanced lines using cardboard cutouts balanced on a ruler before computer algorythyms....
Turner had done this 50 years earlier with his metacentric shelf theory which, IIRC was ''wrong'' yet, for the wrong reasons produced admirably well behaved wooden long keelers with rocker( wrong word really) to the bottom of the keels.. I think..

And Sadler then went on at Sadler yachts to shave off a bit more keel here and there, add a bit of freeboard, bit more stern for downwind stuff.. but you will know all this..

The later Sadler boats effectively removed the undesired underwater area to reduce low speed wetted surface drag, basically...but is only of consequence at low speeds..
I do wonder. What if Martin Sadler had been tasked to revisit the lines of the CO32...? Academic now, sadly...

Were Myth of Malham, Sopranino etc early fin and skeggies in the UK ? Cant remember


Actually isn't this the contention? 45 years on people who have not sailed a CO32 apply current design and market led attributes retrospectively? And the magazines offer a contrast and compare, of sorts? A tiny fraction of non fin and skeg types exist but it is a selective owner who rebundles desirable attributes and discards a few, and pays for it too..
I have a 'short keeled' long keeler btw. Its replacement, the new Rustler 37 will be a fin and skeg jobby with better aft accommodations and Stephen Jones underbody.. If they can get it right accommodation-wise and still approach the Starlight 35 sailing ability, I for on shall be delighted, if unable to afford one. Phwoarr

 

[Greenheart]

A number of Contessa 32s have been changed internally but this generally puts them out of class for racing. Even if this is of no concern, it potentially affects resale value so people are wary about doing it.

I'm sure you're right Doug.

I'd thought of a decent-size wc/shower compartment in place of the quarter-berth/chart table, then have really comfortable port & starboard sofas and a slightly raised V-double berth immediately forward...just a curtain, no need for bulkheads if it's mainly for a comfort-loving couple. Possibly, even shorten the sofas to bring the V-berth aft by a foot to broaden it. And, trotter-boxes under the V-berth pillows, to allow the sofas to be slept on when guests are too plastered to go home?

I agree it's not a promising basis for change - although I reckon the constriction of the cabin is why the design isn't so well-thought-of by AWB owners.

 

[doug748]

I know where you are coming from because I have played this game myself, and with my even more diminutive previous boat.

On the boat I saw, the head's door had been brought outboard almost to the companionway, this was necessary to get the internal depth because the turn of the hull really constrains things in the chart table area - it is well past the point of max beam and, as we know, the boats are very pointy both ends. So what you get is something which is visually a bit overbearing. It would have probably been improved if it was not dark wood.

I would miss the chart table which I think is a model of it's type. The quarter berth would be no great loss unless you have 16 year old gymnasts crewing.

 

[Greenheart]

View attachment 42065

I can imagine having a full-beam galley, ahead of the sofas (which could now go 30" further aft to the beamest point, and be a lot fuller)...and ahead of the galley, a fo'c'sle bathroom with lots of general stowage. Get rid of the V-berth altogether, and the whining crew who used to vomit there.

Mad, but kind of lavish, for just a couple of mates or man & wife. Big wide sofa berths, big loo & shower forward, and no comfort lost by trying to make space for auntie or the kids.

She'd look as attractive below, as on deck. I glanced at the Spirit 37 (less than 7ft beam)...makes the Co32 look like a squat little VW camper. But the accommodation is Spartan...

...everyone knows a ten-metre boat today can be pretty roomy & comfortable...but not so easily roomy, comfortable and pretty! If the lines of the Co32 are close to perfect aesthetically (in spite of what the heathens say), my ideal would be to ensure the cabin was just as appealing. I'll re-draw it and post here for the amusement of the barbarians.

 

[gregcope]

Now having read the Contessa article that the OP is referring to, I must admit I don't think it was over the top in any way. If you want an example of a more sycophantic boat review then the OP and others should be more outraged by the Starlight 35 review back in the April issue. According to that review, it really could do no wrong!
Before anyone asks, I happen to really like the Contessa and the Starlight in equal measure.

Ah good. As presently I have one of each...

Contessa 32 for sale, as referenced previously in this thread.

However, even as an owner, I do agree that some of these articles are a little OTT.

 

[doug748]

"my ideal would be to ensure the cabin was just as appealing. I'll re-draw it and post here for the amusement of the barbarians."


I look forward to seeing your ideas. Check out the internal photos of this Mystery 30:

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2008/Mystery-30-2501621/United-Kingdom#.U158cOlOVpM

 

[Greenheart]

Check out the internal photos of this Mystery 30...

Pure class, thank you. Why the hell can't mass-producers make boats like that? I suppose a minority do...but tragically the Brit market feasts on tasteless lard-arsed Euro-AWBs.

I like the Mystery's bigger sister too:

View attachment 42067

 

[JumbleDuck]

Pure class, thank you. Why the hell can't mass-producers make boats like that?

I spent some time crawling over one at a recent boat show, just out of nosiness. It's very pretty, but like Cornish Crabbers products generally the inside is disappointingly flimsy.

 

[Greenheart]

It's very pretty, but like Cornish Crabbers products generally the inside is disappointingly flimsy.

That's worrying to hear. I spent a day crewing aboard a Shrimper decades ago, and repeatedly bruised myself on a table that seemed to be made of cast iron. Flimsy, it was not.

Perhaps the skipper/owner had bolstered the standard table with baulks of teak.

 

[JumbleDuck]

That's worrying to hear. I spent a day crewing aboard a Shrimper decades ago, and repeatedly bruised myself on a table that seemed to be made of cast iron. Flimsy, it was not.

Perhaps the skipper and owner had bolstered the standard table with baulks of teak.

To be fair, the CC17 a friend had was very solidly made. I wasn't terribly impressed with the CC26 when I went round it, though. It's very, very pretty, but I suspect sold more as a floating beach hut for the Country Homes set than for extensive cruising. A shame, that, because by all accounts it sails very well indeed.