Whose responsibility is a boat sunk at its mooring?

[Kelpie]

A little over a year ago a disused yacht was dismasted and shortly afterwards sank at its mooring in our harbour. It was in a prime spot and is a cause for concern for the other baot owners around it. The harbour authority have marked the wreck with buoys but other than that nothing has been done. I have heard anecdotally that the owner of the yacht has denied that he owns it, there was no insurance, and that he has washed his hands of it.

I will shortly be mooring my new boat right next to the wreck, and I'm pretty concerned about it. I haven't contacted the harbour authority yet but it seems like between them, hte HA and the owner of the wreck are quite happy for it just to sit there.

Am I legally allowed to do anything to the wreck? At the very least I'd like to cut away all the rigging wires to make it a bit 'cleaner'.

 

[lw395]

Perhaps the Receiver of Wreck could tell you?
It would be in everyones interests to tidy it up, but beware of doing 'half a job'.

 

[armchairsailor]

Is it worth salvaging?

On another thought, it isn't a folkboat, is it?

 

[Kelpie]

I very much doubt it's worth salvaging, but if you want to have a go....
It was essentially abandoned by its owner years before it finally sank. A very very sorry sight as it had wonderful lines, a real classic. Not a folkboat, in fact I'm not sure of the design but it would have been about 35ft with a counter stern, lovely sheer line.
I've got a few notions about how you might try to raise it but the mud is pretty thick and must have quite a good hold on it.

 

[TradewindSailor]

I very much doubt it's worth salvaging, but if you want to have a go....
It was essentially abandoned by its owner years before it finally sank. A very very sorry sight as it had wonderful lines, a real classic. Not a folkboat, in fact I'm not sure of the design but it would have been about 35ft with a counter stern, lovely sheer line.
I've got a few notions about how you might try to raise it but the mud is pretty thick and must have quite a good hold on it.

Have a word with the harbour master. The authorities may even give you a contract to remove it.

As for salvage ... the boat is in a safe haven, and attached to it's mooring .... so I don't think 'salvage' is relevant. You might be better off getting the 'owner' to sign it over to you if you think it would be a good investment of your time and money to recover it.

If you don't get authority from either the owner or the harbour authority, you could be held responsible for any 'damage' to the boat. As for possible damage to your boat ..... that's your affair as you are aware of the potential risk posed by the sunken boat.

As for lifting it ..... air bags inside .... a good sized pump ..... and time ..... will lift it. If it was 'abandoned' the chances are pretty good that it will still float (the bilge pumps probably gave up).

I'm no marine lawyer ..... so take the above with a pinch of salt!

 

[pmyatt]

Have a word with the harbour master. The authorities may even give you a contract to remove it.

As for salvage ... the boat is in a safe haven, and attached to it's mooring .... so I don't think 'salvage' is relevant. You might be better off getting the 'owner' to sign it over to you if you think it would be a good investment of your time and money to recover it.

If you don't get authority from either the owner or the harbour authority, you could be held responsible for any 'damage' to the boat. As for possible damage to your boat ..... that's your affair as you are aware of the potential risk posed by the sunken boat.

As for lifting it ..... air bags inside .... a good sized pump ..... and time ..... will lift it. If it was 'abandoned' the chances are pretty good that it will still float (the bilge pumps probably gave up).

I'm no marine lawyer ..... so take the above with a pinch of salt!

You will find, almost certainly, that there will be a charge for outstanding mooring fees to be paid!

 

[nimbusgb]

You will find, almost certainly, that there will be a charge for outstanding mooring fees to be paid!

Which could be negotiated to just equal the cost of removal of the hulk ????

 

[TradewindSailor]

You will find, almost certainly, that there will be a charge for outstanding mooring fees to be paid!

I'm sure the Harbourmaster/Receiver of wrecks would have to get the sanction of the court before removing a boat at it's mooring ...... even if it is lacking in freeboard. It may be that they can only take action if it is 'a danger to navigation' or once they've issued a lien against the vessel ..... nailing it to the mast might be fun. But then there are the local by-laws too ......

 

[bigwow]

As for lifting it ..... air bags inside .... a good sized pump ..... and time ..... will lift it. If it was 'abandoned' the chances are pretty good that it will still float (the bilge pumps probably gave up).

They have just done that exact thing in our marina and lifted the fore deck and coach roof clean off as the air bags came to the surface without the boat

 

[TradewindSailor]

They have just done that exact thing in our marina and lifted the fore deck and coach roof clean off as the air bags came to the surface without the boat

I think they forgot the last part ...... time! Either that or it wasn't much good anyway.

 

[Kelpie]

Thanks all for the replies.
Raising the wreck could be pretty difficult, the mud will have a good hold of it. However clearing away ropes, rigging, and spars ought to be doable. At low springs you could walk around on the deck with waders on. Maybe I should just get a set of bolt-crops and get to work on it?

 

[mandlmaunder]

Hi Rob

Was the boat on a private, put in by owner or a HA mooring, in which case there will be a contract some where.

If the latter is true then there is a paper trail and the rightful owner can be contacted with the intension of them removing their boat, it doen't matter if they disown the vessel unless they can prove the vessel was sold and have the paper work to prove this rather than just a verbal denial.

If all else fails use the EPA as dispossal at sea of rubbish is an offence. They can take legal recourse for the enviroment which is being damaged by this fly tipping of rubbish.

Just a thought and worth a try!
Mark

 

[NorthUp]

Maybe I should just get a set of bolt-crops and get to work on it?

Rob- the owner of the 'Donian' is a well know serial sue-er, don't touch it with a bargepole!

Mark- she is on (actually beside!) a private mooring, and at the moment no contracts exist for moorings anywhere in the harbour in question. The owner is well known in the harbour office, which is probably why the legal wheels grind slow but sure!

 

[David_Jersey]

Sounds like that at some point you will be using bolt croppers / a chainsaw - to disentangle yourself.

If that is the case I would go for pre-emptive action, especially as you appear to have low water access.......might take a few trips. If well stuck in the mud could try using a lift bag, with the intention of lifting the deck away to help the mud claim her.

My advice is to wrap up warm - dark clothing and a hoody, if not also a Balaclava ........and then practice the phrase "not me Guv"

 

[Firestone]

Mark, I personally wouldn't interfere with the wreck/vessel or for that matter moor your vessel anywhere near it in the meantime until such time that it is removed by the owner or the Harbour authorities. This owner in allowing this to happen to his boat,will have scant regard for yours should anything untoward happen in the refloating/ liftout process.In the interm I'd register my interest with the Harbour authorities regarding the 'Availibility' of the mooring if/when it becomes available.