Who thinks a vessel under sail always has right of way?

nortada said:
The motoring cone is illogical.

With head sail flying it is impossible for a boat under power on a collision course with a vessel motor-sailing, to see it sitting behind the sail. Additionally, if tacking away, it is easy to tangle the sail with the cone with interesting consequences.

So when under power I avoid the vessel with sails hoisted.
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I avoid vessels - it's safer and less expensive ;)
 
nortada said:
The motoring cone is illogical.

With head sail flying it is impossible for a boat under power on a collision course with a vessel motor-sailing, to see it sitting behind the sail. Additionally, if tacking away, it is easy to tangle the sail with the cone with interesting consequences.

So when under power I avoid the vessel with sails hoisted.
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Ok, Fred Drift, but I was watching one of those Mighty Ships programmes at the weekend, featuring these sail-powered cruise ships. The programme-makers mentioned the difficulties of have to alternate between rules for both powered and wind-driven vessels (poor things!) but I didn't see any motoring cones in evidence anywhere. And, assuming they did use one, would anyone be able to spot it before it was too late?
 
Supine Being said:
Ok, Fred Drift, but I was watching one of those Mighty Ships programmes at the weekend, featuring these sail-powered cruise ships. The programme-makers mentioned the difficulties of have to alternate between rules for both powered and wind-driven vessels (poor things!) but I didn't see any motoring cones in evidence anywhere. And, assuming they did use one, would anyone be able to spot it before it was too late?
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More thread drift or is it leeway? One of the problems with AIS when ocean sailing is that a vessel of 250metres in length will show as 'Sailing' rather than 'underway using engine'. For some time I thought that a number of sail powered ships were around. I then decided that the word 'sailing' in some languages may be confused with 'underway'. Unfortunately I never go close enough to a 250 metre vessel that was 'sailing', to ask if she was on port or starboard tack.
 
nortada said:
The motoring cone is illogical.

With head sail flying it is impossible for a boat under power on a collision course with a vessel motor-sailing, to see it sitting behind the sail. Additionally, if tacking away, it is easy to tangle the sail with the cone with interesting consequences.

So when under power I avoid the vessel with sails hoisted.
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By no means. A cone at the spreader will always be visible from one direction and it is simple to make sure it is visible from the other. All you have to do is roll in some genoa, which is prudent anyway when there are other vessels close by. I have never had any problem tacking with the cone in place, although I would rarely do so. And at close quarters with more than one other vessel, "keeping out of the way" isn't so easy. In any case, the coneless motor sailing skipper may just decide to keep out of your way at the same time as you start your course change to keep out of his.

Predictability. A desirable thing at sea as much as on land. (I really don't like car drivers who are so extravagantly polite that they insist on waving you on when your are the give way car. It often creates uncertainty. You hesitate until you are sure he or she really is giving way while he or she decides you aren't coming after all and both cars start inching forward at the same time...then one or other has to stop again.... Pointless)
 
Believe it is the responsibility of all skippers to avoid collisions.
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Not in a bunk getting a bit of shuteye, with an anchor light or ball up. Same applies if there are three balls showing. An additional reason to give way to the other vessel, no matter what type of vessel it is, I should think. Also try convincing a working dredger that you are the stand on vessel just because you are 'under sail' and it is HIS responsibility to avoid the collision. Even more so an operating mine sweeper or trawler.

Regards Chris.


Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...l-always-has-right-of-way#Pu37GApgbUDtpyh2.99
 
Sinbad1951 said:
Just curious. How many sailors on here think they have absolute right of way once they are under sail relative to all other vessels not under sail.
Slightly convoluted but find its becoming increasing common for someone under sail to be hollering 'Im sailing' which indicates that they think they have the right to proceed as they wish with total disregard for who or what vessels they interfere with.
Prize goes to idiot who tacked meters from me onto a collision course at Pinmill and kept shouting "Im sailing, Im sailing,' until putting the helm up a metre off long keeled 28 ton ketch.
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Two vessels in sight of one another - one being the stand on vessel, the other the give way vessel. That is why sailing vessels continuously tacking in a river is a mockery of the Col Regs and I have always thought a damn nuisance. If you want to tack go out to sea and practice and stop being a hazard to navigation.
 
shanemax said:
Two vessels in sight of one another - one being the stand on vessel, the other the give way vessel. That is why sailing vessels continuously tacking in a river is a mockery of the Col Regs and I have always thought a damn nuisance. If you want to tack go out to sea and practice and stop being a hazard to navigation.
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Maybe it hasn’t occurred to you that sailing vessels tacking in a river are just doing what sailing vessels do when going from A to B. We don’t need to practice, because we’re actually quite good at it. We’ve been doing it for yonks, and our kind have been doing it for centuries.
 
shanemax said:
Two vessels in sight of one another - one being the stand on vessel, the other the give way vessel. That is why sailing vessels continuously tacking in a river is a mockery of the Col Regs and I have always thought a damn nuisance. If you want to tack go out to sea and practice and stop being a hazard to navigation.
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Dont worry Shane, if you are having trouble coping with the Rules for the Prevention of Collisions at Sea you've come to the right place to get help.

Many of us have been sailing and boating for a very long time, some here are professional seafarers, and we'd be only too happy to explain things to a beginner.
 
Poignard said:
Dont worry Shane, if you are having trouble coping with the Rules for the Prevention of Collisions at Sea you've come to the right place to get help.

Many of us have been sailing and boating for a very long time, some here are professional seafarers, and we'd be only too happy to explain things to a beginner.
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Sailing vessel, motoring vessel, sailing vessel using power, vessel constrained by its draft, fishing vessel, one or the other is the stand on vessel and suddenly changing course,( showing off to the wife,) every two to three minutes is bad seamanship, and is a nuisance to every other boat on the river I see it all the time and I always think what a total muppet. If it applies to you then you are a third rate sailor who has a damaged ego. Go out to sea where you can change your tack every mile or so, if and when it is safe to do so.......... or are you scared to leave the river
 
I can't find the bit in colregs that says anything about "right of way" since it doesn't exist in the rules.

I've sailed by tacking up rivers many times. I'd like to think I could bring the boat back safely if the engine failed. Many vessels I see on the Hamble River don't even have an engine.
 
I can see that all the proffessional sailors on here who leave it to the last minute to cut in front or just miss other river users, while tacking, will be offended and up in arms but it is crap seamanship and they all have that same silly look on theirs faces, especially if the wife or brother in law is on board, to show off to.
 
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