Who thinks a vessel under sail always has right of way?

[sailorman]

Or maybe move this thread to scuttlebutt as its East coast relevancy no longer applies, and do the same to other threads that go the same way

Afternoon Dave :tranquillity:

 

[Sixpence]

Afternoon Dave :tranquillity:

Correct :encouragement:
Tea breaks exist here, unlike so many businesses these days. There we go, drifted into lounge territory now, deffo time for a move

 

[Medskipper]

Just curious. How many sailors on here think they have absolute right of way once they are under sail relative to all other vessels not under sail.
Slightly convoluted but find its becoming increasing common for someone under sail to be hollering 'Im sailing' which indicates that they think they have the right to proceed as they wish with total disregard for who or what vessels they interfere with.
Prize goes to idiot who tacked meters from me onto a collision course at Pinmill and kept shouting "Im sailing, Im sailing,' until putting the helm up a metre off long keeled 28 ton ketch.

Power gives way to sail! But look out for that tell tale puff of smoke which means he's just a motor boat and not a sail boat anymore

 

[Tradewinds]

Or maybe move this thread to scuttlebutt as its East coast relevancy no longer applies, and do the same to other threads that go the same way

We'll just discuss mud then . . .

 

[Capt Popeye]

Or maybe move this thread to scuttlebutt as its East coast relevancy no longer applies, and do the same to other threads that go the same way

Err, can we discuss the Clacton Air Show in these East Coast pages, then ?

ducking now, into the muddy waters

 

[Capt Popeye]

This is getting more like scuttlebutt every day. Can we go back to where we used to be?

Humm, perish the thought, East Coast men (and Ladies) are superior to 'other area' types, why cannot East Coasters talk amongst themselves on these subjects, they have a different point of view to the rest of the UK

 

[pmagowan]

Power gives way to sail! But look out for that tell tale puff of smoke which means he's just a motor boat and not a sail boat anymore

Not really. You are only a motor boat if being propelled by mechanical means. It is not uncommon for a sailing boat to have the engine on while still being a 'sailing boat' under the regs so you really can't tell unless they are doing something contrary to what the wind would allow. For instance, I often leave my engine on after I have set out sailing so that my batteries get topped up. I also sometimes turn it on during a crossing because I have been using instruments and have not run the engine for charge for a few days. We really should put the motoring cone up during the day if we are being propelled by engine but there are not too many boats that do that.

 

[nortada]

Power gives way to sail! But look out for that tell tale puff of smoke which means he's just a motor boat and not a sail boat anymore

So far as I am concerned if sails are hoisted and appear to be drawing, whether on not I think the engine is running, for me, it's a sail boat and I treat it accordingly - the safest way.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Humm, does seem to me that this thorny old question is really not understood in the meaning of why the Rules were worded as they are. Suppose that there are mot many still boating before Powered craft came on the scene, as a result we have the 'somewhat bolshie bullshit' of 'present day sailors' not really understanding the point of them rules.
If anyone really wants to understand the 'rational' behind the wording of dem Rules, suggest that one takes a step back in time to when the Rules became necessary, a time when Boats under Sail had ruled the seas and along came 'powered craft, whom were faster, easier to control as speed and course, not so dependant upon wind and tide, so the poor ole Sail powered boats were no match when delivering goods and doing good time on voyages. So a new set of rules became necessary so as to allow both Powered and Sail driven craft to exist side by side.
BUT somewhere along the line, since, it apparently has become somewhat misunderstood by many a Yacht person, and an attitude applied that is or was not ever the real intent of the Rules. Thankfully them rules were written to cover such 'misunderstood' understandings and so a statement to the effect that all afloat' should do all one can to avoid collisions etc, but it would appear that even that is apparently misunderstood.
Ones Sea Faring Grandparents must be looking down in utter disbelief at the apparent present situation :-(

 

[Baddox]

Not really. You are only a motor boat if being propelled by mechanical means. It is not uncommon for a sailing boat to have the engine on while still being a 'sailing boat' under the regs so you really can't tell unless they are doing something contrary to what the wind would allow.

That’s not what I was taught. A boat under sail is hampered in its manoeuvrability. Once the engine is running it is a simple job to steer on any point of the wind so is no longer hampered and so should be afforded the same status as a motoring boat.

 

[Boz]

Rule 2B is IMHO the telling one

' In construing and complying with these rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these rules necessary to avoid immediate danger'

 

[pmagowan]

That’s not what I was taught. A boat under sail is hampered in its manoeuvrability. Once the engine is running it is a simple job to steer on any point of the wind so is no longer hampered and so should be afforded the same status as a motoring boat.

The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.
(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.


My interpretation of this is that if you are not using 'propelling machinery' such as an engine driving a prop then, if you have sails up you are a sailing boat. The colregs do not say you are a power driven vessel just because you have a motor on board and that motor is on because that would make generators change your status. It must be 'propelling machinery' I.e a motor, gearbox, driveshaft and prop all being used.

 

[nortada]

The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.
(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.


My interpretation of this is that if you are not using 'propelling machinery' such as an engine driving a prop then, if you have sails up you are a sailing boat. The colregs do not say you are a power driven vessel just because you have a motor on board and that motor is on because that would make generators change your status. It must be 'propelling machinery' I.e a motor, gearbox, driveshaft and prop all being used.

All true but it is not always possible to see if a sail boat with sails hoisted is under power so if it has sails up I accord it sail boat status.

 

[Serin]

u We really should put the motoring cone up during the day if we are being propelled by engine but there are not too many boats that do that.

The "safest way" is to be able to predict the other skipper's behaviour. That is the point of the whole rigmaroles. And, of course, we could predict with confidence if........................

Oh, never mind :apathy::apathy:

 

[Steve Clayton]

Who thinks a vessel under sail always has right of way?

I don't

 

[reginaldon]

Of course not, every fishing boat has permanent right of way because they are always fishing, with the twin cones welded to their masts!

 

[johnalison]

In the Walton Channel powerboats have the right of way to drive on the left (or port as we might say).

 

[sailorman]

In the Walton Channel powerboats have the right of way to drive on the left (or port as we might say).

much the same on the Orwell on Saturday too

 

[Athene V30]

In the Walton Channel powerboats have the right of way to drive on the left (or port as we might say).

Probably BMW drivers!

 

[nortada]

The motoring cone is illogical.

With head sail flying it is impossible for a boat under power on a collision course with a vessel motor-sailing, to see it sitting behind the sail. Additionally, if tacking away, it is easy to tangle the sail with the cone with interesting consequences.

So when under power I avoid the vessel with sails hoisted.