Who thinks a vessel under sail always has right of way?

[shanemax]

I can't find the bit in colregs that says anything about "right of way" since it doesn't exist in the rules.

I've sailed by tacking up rivers many times. I'd like to think I could bring the boat back safely if the engine failed. Many vessels I see on the Hamble River don't even have an engine.

I often practice sailing back to my mooring, but not at the expense of every other boat around me.

 

[shanemax]

And if you cannot find that MAIN RULE in the Col Regs will someone on here point wonkywinch in the right direction because I cannot be bothered.
Sorry perhaps I can be bothered to help a "Hazard to Navigation"

 

[shanemax]

When two boats are in sight of each other under the COLREGs, the specific rules depend on their type and relative position, with key principles including the "Give-Way/Stand-On" hierarchy, where the Give-Way vessel must take action to avoid collision, and the Stand-On vessel must maintain its course and speed. Power-driven vessels, sailing vessels, and fishing vessels have different responsibilities. For instance, a powerboat must give way to a sailing vessel, a vessel with restricted maneuverability, or a fishing vessel engaged in fishing.

General Principles

• Give-Way vs. Stand-On:
  The core concept is that one vessel is designated the "Give-Way" vessel and must take clear action to avoid collision. The other is the "Stand-On" vessel and must maintain its course and speed.
  
  • A power-driven vessel must give way to any sailing vessel, a vessel not under command (NUC), or a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver (RAM), and also to any vessel engaged in fishing.
    
    
  • Sailing vessels: follow rules based on wind direction.
    
    
  • Overtaking vessels: always have a responsibility to keep clear of the overtaken vessel.
    

Common Situations

• Head-on Situation (Rule 14):
  When vessels are approaching each other on a head-on course, both vessels should alter course to starboard (right) to pass port-to-port.
  
  
• Crossing Situation (Rule 15):
  When two power-driven vessels are crossing, the vessel that has the other on its starboard (right) side is the Give-Way vessel. The other vessel is the Stand-On vessel.
  
  
• Overtaking Situation (Rule 13):
  An overtaking vessel is always the Give-Way vessel and must keep clear of the overtaken vessel.
  
  • If both have the wind on different sides, the one with the wind on its port (left) side must give way.
    
    
  • If both have the wind on the same side, the vessel to windward (upwind) must give way to the vessel to leeward (downwind).
    

What to Do When in Doubt (Rule 14(d))

• If a vessel fails to understand the intentions of another or is in doubt about whether sufficient action is being taken to avoid collision, it must immediately indicate this doubt by giving at least five short and rapid blasts on the whistle.
• This signal can be supplemented by at least five short, rapid flashes of a light.

• SECTIONS II & III RULES 11 TO 19 SHIPS IN SIGHT OF ONE ...
  (a) When two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the wa...
  
  Ocean Cleanup
  
  
  
  
• MSN 1781 (M+F) - GOV.UK
  (c) When in sight of one another in a narrow channel or fairway: (i) a vessel intending to overtake another shall in compliance wi...
  
  GOV.UK
  
  
  
  
• COLREG - Preventing collisions at sea
  Section II - Conduct of vessels in sight of one another (Rules 11-18) Rule 11 says the section applies to vessels in sight of one ...
  
  International Maritime Organization
  
  
  
  
• Show all

 

[shanemax]

How can you stick to the rules when at the last minute a sailing vessel changes course and in a lot of cases they have the engine running as well. It is a total MOCKERY of the Col Regs.

 

[Poignard]

Sailing vessel, motoring vessel, sailing vessel using power, vessel constrained by its draft, fishing vessel, one or the other is the stand on vessel and suddenly changing course,( showing off to the wife,) every two to three minutes is bad seamanship, and is a nuisance to every other boat on the river I see it all the time and I always think what a total muppet. If it applies to you then you are a third rate sailor who has a damaged ego. Go out to sea where you can change your tack every mile or so, if and when it is safe to do so.......... or are you scared to leave the river

Learn the rules, abide by them, and save yourself a nasty accident.

If you aren't prepared to do that, keep off the water and take up some other activity where you won't come to any harm, eg flower arranging or trolling on the Internet.

 

[PaulRainbow]

And if you cannot find that MAIN RULE in the Col Regs will someone on here point wonkywinch in the right direction because I cannot be bothered.
Sorry perhaps I can be bothered to help a "Hazard to Navigation"

Wonkeywinch said :

"I can't find the bit in colregs that says anything about "right of way" since it doesn't exist in the rules."

Can you post which rule says "right of way" ?

 

[PaulRainbow]

When two boats are in sight of each other under the COLREGs, the specific rules depend on their type and relative position, with key principles including the "Give-Way/Stand-On" hierarchy, where the Give-Way vessel must take action to avoid collision, and the Stand-On vessel must maintain its course and speed. Power-driven vessels, sailing vessels, and fishing vessels have different responsibilities. For instance, a powerboat must give way to a sailing vessel, a vessel with restricted maneuverability, or a fishing vessel engaged in fishing.

General Principles

• Give-Way vs. Stand-On:
  The core concept is that one vessel is designated the "Give-Way" vessel and must take clear action to avoid collision. The other is the "Stand-On" vessel and must maintain its course and speed.
  • A power-driven vessel must give way to any sailing vessel, a vessel not under command (NUC), or a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver (RAM), and also to any vessel engaged in fishing.
    
    
  • Sailing vessels: follow rules based on wind direction.
    
    
  • Overtaking vessels: always have a responsibility to keep clear of the overtaken vessel.

Common Situations

• Head-on Situation (Rule 14):
  When vessels are approaching each other on a head-on course, both vessels should alter course to starboard (right) to pass port-to-port.
  
  
• Crossing Situation (Rule 15):
  When two power-driven vessels are crossing, the vessel that has the other on its starboard (right) side is the Give-Way vessel. The other vessel is the Stand-On vessel.
  
  
• Overtaking Situation (Rule 13):
  An overtaking vessel is always the Give-Way vessel and must keep clear of the overtaken vessel.
  • If both have the wind on different sides, the one with the wind on its port (left) side must give way.
    
    
  • If both have the wind on the same side, the vessel to windward (upwind) must give way to the vessel to leeward (downwind).

What to Do When in Doubt (Rule 14(d))

• If a vessel fails to understand the intentions of another or is in doubt about whether sufficient action is being taken to avoid collision, it must immediately indicate this doubt by giving at least five short and rapid blasts on the whistle.
• This signal can be supplemented by at least five short, rapid flashes of a light.

• SECTIONS II & III RULES 11 TO 19 SHIPS IN SIGHT OF ONE ...
  (a) When two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the wa...
  
  Ocean Cleanup
  
  View attachment 199136
  
  
• MSN 1781 (M+F) - GOV.UK
  (c) When in sight of one another in a narrow channel or fairway: (i) a vessel intending to overtake another shall in compliance wi...
  View attachment 199138
  GOV.UK
  
  View attachment 199139
  
  
• COLREG - Preventing collisions at sea
  Section II - Conduct of vessels in sight of one another (Rules 11-18) Rule 11 says the section applies to vessels in sight of one ...
  View attachment 199140
  International Maritime Organization
  
  View attachment 199137
  
  
• Show all

I cannot see where it says "right of way"

 

[LittleSister]

How can you stick to the rules when at the last minute a sailing vessel changes course and in a lot of cases they have the engine running as well. It is a total MOCKERY of the Col Regs.

Note the requirement of a stand on vessel is to maintain her course, which is not necessarily her heading. In cases such as a vessel under power following a buoyed channel round a bend in a river, or a sailing vessel tacking up a river and approaching the shore, a change in heading is an inevitable part of maintaining their course, as required.

A sailing vessel having it's engine running is irrelevant to its status as a vessel under sail if it is not being propelled by the engine (i.e. it is out of gear). A sailing vessel might have its engine running but not in gear for a variety of reasons, for example to charge the batteries, or as a safety measure in congested waters where another vessel's failure to follow the ColRegs may require a rapid alteration of course or speed.

 

[johnalison]

How can you stick to the rules when at the last minute a sailing vessel changes course and in a lot of cases they have the engine running as well. It is a total MOCKERY of the Col Regs.

Almost everyone else in the World except you seems to manage it without difficulty. If there is one thing that is simple, it is working out when a sailing boat is about to tack. It is something I have managed under power or sail since I was 12 yrs old, and I have yet to collide with another craft, in places that vary from wide estuaries to narrow creeks. The problem has nothing to do with the rules but entirely with your resentment at what might be a slight delay while you observe the rules. Your suggestion that a sailing boat should never tack in a narrow channel (commercial traffic excepted) is preposterous.

 

[Malish]

You really have zero concept of what you are saying and have obviously never ever read the rules. A sailing vessel with the engine running becomes a motor vessel, as it is not totally reliant on its sails. Thats is why sailing vessels carry a cone, but very few sailors use them. "Confucius says" Read the rules and put your brain in gear before opening your mouth. You best look up who Confucius was cos i know you have no idea.

my engine will run when out of gear, does yours?

 

[shanemax]

Sorry but "maintain her coarse, which is not necessary her heading" YOU COULD NOT MAKE THIS UP>

 

[shanemax]

Almost everyone else in the World except you seems to manage it without difficulty. If there is one thing that is simple, it is working out when a sailing boat is about to tack. It is something I have managed under power or sail since I was 12 yrs old, and I have yet to collide with another craft, in places that vary from wide estuaries to narrow creeks. The problem has nothing to do with the rules but entirely with your resentment at what might be a slight delay while you observe the rules. Your suggestion that a sailing boat should never tack in a narrow channel (commercial traffic excepted) is preposterous.

OK with your attitude to what suits you at the time lets just tear up the rule book and make it up as we see fit and next time you are driving your car on the road drive on the right and ignore red traffic lights cos they are only rules to be ignored if they are inconvenient to a selfish person like you.

 

[Malish]

Sorry but "maintain her coarse, which is not necessary her heading" YOU COULD NOT MAKE THIS UP>

In sailing, the terms course and heading are often confused but have distinct meanings:

• Course: This refers to the intended path of a vessel over the ground, typically plotted on a nautical chart and expressed in degrees. It is determined before departure and follows to reach a specific destination.
  
  2
• Heading: This is the direction in which a vessel's bow is pointed at any given moment. It can change frequently due to steering adjustments and external factors like wind and currents.
  
  2
  In summary, the course is the planned route, while the heading is the actual direction the vessel is heading towards. Understanding these terms is crucial for effective navigation and safe sailing.

c. wikipedia

 

[shanemax]

Sorry who ever you are.....If you do not understand MAINTAIN YOUR COURSE AND SPEED.I just cannot be bothered to try to educate a person like you any more as I see it as a pointless exercise. If air sea rescue in a helicopter on the radio said maintain your course and speed would you ask them what they meant. As I said "you could not make it up"

 

[dunedin]

Do we need a Forum flag / indicator to highlight the Troll Thread Of The Day?

Clearly if you have a Lithium battery you can hoist signal for dangerous cargo and plough on regardless

 

[LittleSister]

You really have zero concept of what you are saying and have obviously never ever read the rules.

You are mistaken, yet again.

A sailing vessel with the engine running becomes a motor vessel

Wrong again.

OK with your attitude to what suits you at the time lets just tear up the rule book and make it up as we see fit

That is not his attitude, but it is yours.

 

[KevinV]

Do we need a Forum flag / indicator to highlight the Troll Thread Of The Day?

Not really necessary, but people will insist on feeding it

 

[Lucky Duck]

As discussed hereabouts before, the meaning of course and speed was clarified in The Reanoke, a case involving a ship reducing her speed to pick up a pilot

 

[TomK]

Sorry but "maintain her coarse, which is not necessary her heading" YOU COULD NOT MAKE THIS UP>

Course and heading are two different things. Not always the same. I think most people on this forum would accept and understand that.

 

[TomK]

sailing vessels continuously tacking in a river is a mockery of the Col Regs and I have always thought a damn nuisance. If you want to tack go out to sea and practice and stop being a hazard to navigation.

Seriously?