Whilst walking in the marina I saw these 2 horrors

[capnsensible]

Certainly have their place. But sometimes there are still moorings around where cleats have to be shared. Then it's a bit selfish. Harbour walls, etc.

Can be a pita if the boat has been left for a long time and may require surgery to get them off. I've picked up yachts that haven't been moved for a long time and the knife was the only option.

I'm also not a fan of leaving lots of line on the dock. Even experienced boat users can trip over them.

But generally, whatever is used on a pontoon cleat, the onboard ends are generally oxo ed anyway, hopefully without the locking turn.

However, there is no 'wrong' way in my opinion, as long as the yacht doesn't wander off on its own!

 

[Wansworth]

There is another way of lookingh at all this criticism of peoples boats and things not done properly. To me there is a joy in bodging and fixing things and generally maintaining my little boat in just the way I think serves the purpose. Others may criticise my perseverance with old ropes rough paint jobs etc but that is my joy to do it my way. (on a shoe string budget) ol'will

Great comment!

 

[Wansworth]

Certainly have their place. But sometimes there are still moorings around where cleats have to be shared. Then it's a bit selfish. Harbour walls, etc.

Can be a pita if the boat has been left for a long time and may require surgery to get them off. I've picked up yachts that haven't been moved for a long time and the knife was the only option.

I'm also not a fan of leaving lots of line on the dock. Even experienced boat users can trip over them.

But generally, whatever is used on a pontoon cleat, the onboard ends are generally oxo ed anyway, hopefully without the locking turn.

However, there is no 'wrong' way in my opinion, as long as the yacht doesn't wander off on its own!

Yes we should be more forgiving after almost of us are weekend sailers

 

[johnalison]

Certainly have their place. But sometimes there are still moorings around where cleats have to be shared. Then it's a bit selfish. Harbour walls, etc.

Can be a pita if the boat has been left for a long time and may require surgery to get them off. I've picked up yachts that haven't been moved for a long time and the knife was the only option.

I'm also not a fan of leaving lots of line on the dock. Even experienced boat users can trip over them.

But generally, whatever is used on a pontoon cleat, the onboard ends are generally oxo ed anyway, hopefully without the locking turn.

However, there is no 'wrong' way in my opinion, as long as the yacht doesn't wander off on its own!

I become untypically uncoordinated when I pass rope coiled or lying on the pontoon and somehow or other the rope always seems to end up dangling in the water.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

I become untypically uncoordinated when I pass rope coiled or lying on the pontoon and somehow or other the rope always seems to end up dangling in the water.

I tend to load the cleat with lots of turns. Mainly because there is less rope coiled on the pontoon to get kicked about and cause a trip.

Yes, I also suffer from wet rope syndrome .

 

[Mark-1]

I tend to load the cleat with lots of turns. Mainly because there is less rope coiled on the pontoon to get kicked about and cause a trip.

Yeah, I take it case by case but I have no problem piling rope on the cleat when it seems best, often the best place for it.

My kids as toddlers used to do massive tangled works of art on cleats - I never undid it. The last thing I want is to spoil their weekend with cleat pedantry. In the unlikely event I needed a *very* quick departure I'd use a knife or undo the other end.

 

[rotrax]

Certainly have their place. But sometimes there are still moorings around where cleats have to be shared. Then it's a bit selfish. Harbour walls, etc.

Can be a pita if the boat has been left for a long time and may require surgery to get them off. I've picked up yachts that haven't been moved for a long time and the knife was the only option.

I'm also not a fan of leaving lots of line on the dock. Even experienced boat users can trip over them.

But generally, whatever is used on a pontoon cleat, the onboard ends are generally oxo ed anyway, hopefully without the locking turn.

However, there is no 'wrong' way in my opinion, as long as the yacht doesn't wander off on its own!

In my working career I was a Veteran, Vintage and Classic motorbike dealer.

I often came across what are now known as 'Rivet Counters' who sole ambition seemed to be to pick holes in the efforts of others. A guy would make a wonderful restoration of a rusty wreck, only to be criticised by someone counting rivets. Someone who had not worn his fingers to the bone rubbing down seven undercoats of alternate grey and red primer and rusty frame tubes.

I often called their bluff when asked. I would look at their effort and find something to be disparaging about.

As a 'Concours' judge, something I often did, I was censured in Classic Bike Magazine for giving the prize to a home restored Rudge over a Norton of the same era restored by a well respected professional.

Classic bike printed my reply, which was simple. My prefered bike had been coachpainted. The pro resto was sprayed.

There was no spray painting in the UK Pre 1928. I chose the most origional bike.

Dont criticise unless you are sure it wont rebound.

The way I attach my boat to the dock suits my boat and my fast failing physical attributes. It works for me and it dont come loose.

Which, as far as I am concerned, is all that matters. Criticism is to me, a matter of supreme indifference.

 

[johnalison]

Yeah, I take it case by case but I have no problem piling rope on the cleat when it seems best, often the best place for it.

My kids as toddlers used to do massive tangled works of art on cleats - I never undid it. The last thing I want is to spoil their weekend with cleat pedantry. In the unlikely event I needed a *very* quick departure I'd use a knife or undo the other end.

What is so difficult about making fast tidily on the shore cleat and then taking up the surplus back on board?

 

[Mark-1]

What is so difficult about making fast tidily on the shore cleat and then taking up the surplus back on board?

If you've got enough surplus to take back to the boat you obvs aren't going to pile it all on the cleat. It would be an unusual cleat that could soak up ~2 metres worth.

 

[webcraft]

The

What is so difficult about making fast tidily on the shore cleat and then taking up the surplus back on board?

There is more space on the pontoon than on my boat

 

[Stemar]

I have a couple of lines to get ashore quickly, then I take my bow and stern lines with an eye over the pontoon cleat to the outside bow & stern cleats, so the surplus rope is on board. (Outside because it gives a longer lead, so more elasticity = less shock loading). If I had a pint for every time someone's put a cleat warmer (thanks wonkywinch) over my neat eye, my liver would have given up the uneven fight long ago

 

[Biggles Wader]

Anchor threads eat your heart out. This is where it's at now!

 

[Wansworth]

Anchor threads eat your heart out. This is where it's at now!

Probably mooring up to a pontoon or dock causes more shouting and stress than any other yachting operation…….always recall a motor sailer serenely steaming into the fuel berth looking in control then the wife appears on the bow ready to prod,husband starts shouting boat goes ahead then astern then wife starts shouting ,ropes thrown at bystanders fall in the water ……there is definitely more posting possibilities in mooringup!

 

[RunAgroundHard]

... I often came across what are now known as 'Rivet Counters' who sole ambition seemed to be to pick holes in the efforts of others. A guy would make a wonderful restoration of a rusty wreck, only to be criticised by someone counting rivets. Someone who had not worn his fingers to the bone rubbing down seven undercoats of alternate grey and red primer and rusty frame tubes. ...

In the early 80's I was 16 / 17, and my first bike was a BSA C15, that I built from two tea chests of BSA C15 bits, in my Mum and Dad's garden shed. I wrecked loads of bits but learned a lot, all my own effort. The bike failed its first MOT because I fitted long bolts on the back mudguard which could have fouled the rear tyre when the suspension was compressed. I sorted that out by reversing the nuts and bolts, and MOT issued. Later, a neighbour criticised my efforts because the bolts were upside down. I think my Mum told the neighbour to take a hike. It stuck with me and since then I have always held opinions of criticisers, especially those who insist on a proper way of doing something. I keep my opinion to myself, mostly, because a lot of criticisers are well meaning at the end of the day, some just like to act superior.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The


There is more space on the pontoon than on my boat

Good point. And whilst we clearly have as much deck space as a superyacht, the last thing we need is coils of rope jumping up and down, tangling, as we walk across the trampolines. There’s enough other gear on there, kite, code 0, both with sheets, the barber haulers, plus, when you moor a tri, you take the lines to the main hull, so the springs are across the tramps too.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

In the early 80's I was 16 / 17, and my first bike was a BSA C15, that I built from two tea chests of BSA C15 bits, in my Mum and Dad's garden shed. I wrecked loads of bits but learned a lot, all my own effort. The bike failed its first MOT because I fitted long bolts on the back mudguard which could have fouled the rear tyre when the suspension was compressed. I sorted that out by reversing the nuts and bolts, and MOT issued. Later, a neighbour criticised my efforts because the bolts were upside down. I think my Mum told the neighbour to take a hike. It stuck with me and since then I have always held opinions of criticisers, especially those who insist on a proper way of doing something. I keep my opinion to myself, mostly, because a lot of criticisers are well meaning at the end of the day, some just like to act superior.

Before the Internet "Find out by doing" was a popular maxim and possibly also a proverb to live by .

Unfortunately , as there is so much information about these days, I have less excuses for my cock up"s . I suppose I could claim conflicting professional advice

 

[jbweston]

I like locking turns

- W

Me too. I nearly always use one.

The almost superstitious avoiding of them is (I think) a throwback to the days of natural fibre ropes where shrinkage of the half hitch made it difficult to undo and was inconvenient or even dangerous. Like a lot of things 'always done that way' the fear of locking turns has persisted after the reason for avoiding them has disappeared.

I do insist on that the locking hitch is done the right way though. Also a locking hitch applied as a substitute for enough line round the cleat is a serious no-no. The locking turn isn't there to take the load but simply as a way of keeping the bitter end neat and secure.

I've no grumble with skippers who don't allow them. Like many things on a boat variety is fine and so much better than feeling we're being examined to qualify as instructors in the Taliban Sailing Club.

 

[johnalison]

In the early 80's I was 16 / 17, and my first bike was a BSA C15, that I built from two tea chests of BSA C15 bits, in my Mum and Dad's garden shed. I wrecked loads of bits but learned a lot, all my own effort. The bike failed its first MOT because I fitted long bolts on the back mudguard which could have fouled the rear tyre when the suspension was compressed. I sorted that out by reversing the nuts and bolts, and MOT issued. Later, a neighbour criticised my efforts because the bolts were upside down. I think my Mum told the neighbour to take a hike. It stuck with me and since then I have always held opinions of criticisers, especially those who insist on a proper way of doing something. I keep my opinion to myself, mostly, because a lot of criticisers are well meaning at the end of the day, some just like to act superior.

It is one thing to criticise someone’s ability or taste, though I would happily do so, but I fail to see why behaviour or practices that are antisocial should be immune from censure. Leaving surplus rope around on a jetty seems to me slovenly, lazy and potentially hazardous, and I reserve the right to comment, as others have done, similarly with those who put their lines over others’, as in #31.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

... The almost superstitious avoiding of them is (I think) a throwback to the days of natural fibre ropes where shrinkage of the half hitch made it difficult to undo and was inconvenient or even dangerous. Like a lot of things 'always done that way' the fear of locking turns has persisted after the reason for avoiding them has disappeared. ...

I don't think it is superstitious or forgotten, a horn cleat is designed to be used without a cleat hitch for the matched line diameter.

Locking turns on horn cleats are not required because the round turn, two figure of eights, and last round turn jams snugly under the lower figure of eight when the standing part is pulled, thus locking the standing part in. There are styles of cleats, such as the ubiquitous pontoon cleat that are not horn cleats, but look similar, where the uprights and top bar are smaller diameters and raised higher above the base than a horn cleat would be, which allows the cleat to be used in many different ways, but the last round turn does not jam under the figure of eight, hence a cleat hitch secures. There are also other reasons why a cleat hitch is required e.g. small diameter ropes, stiff ropes, slippy materials. The shrinkage maybe a thing but I don't think that was such an issue unless the rope diameter was very large compared to the cleat being used.

A smilier round turn and tuck is used on a belying pin.

I am struggling to remember, and may be wrong, but the RYA used to teach round turn, two figure of eights, then round turn, then changed to the OXO cleat hitch, probably as boat designs modernised and cleats changed.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

... but I fail to see why behaviour or practices that are antisocial should be immune from censure. ...

Probably because they are not immune from censure.