Which trailer sailer!

[NealB]

I personally have a hankering for the Bene 27.7 its bigger sister.. hydraulic Lift Keel , based on minitransat design, goes like ****e of a shovel off wind, inboard diesel, Easily sleeps 6 in two cabins,Can dry out on optional legs,Lot of boat for around 20k S/H. Beam is just over max permiited without need to notify police of your intended towing route.
http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/beneteau-first-27-7/first-27-7.htm


I am Going to need a bigger tow vehicle! at 5842lbs

Now that looks quite a boat.

I can only find interior pics with the keel down. What happens when it's raised?

Presumably, there's no reason you can't sail with keel only partially lowered (7 foot draft is quite deep round some parts of the east coast)?

 

[mrming]

Now that looks quite a boat.

I can only find interior pics with the keel down. What happens when it's raised?

Presumably, there's no reason you can't sail with keel only partially lowered (7 foot draft is quite deep round some parts of the east coast)?

It's in the cabin (Hunter Delta style) as far as I understand. So mud smell may be a possibility.

 

[TSB240]

BMW X3 does the job......................and it is legal.

Not sure I would be happy to use an X3 with ours on my way to the docks at Portsmouth then!

Even the X3 might get caught out by Plod with a max towing weight 2.4 tonnes.
In order to put my mind at rest I have had our rig on the weigh-bridge and was shocked by how much the minimally laden boat weighed.
I was also very surprised how moving heavy items around the boat or off it had an impact on the individual loading on each axle . (One check that Vosa may do if you get pulled over is to ensure no tyre or axle is overloaded above its rating.)

Boat Builders new displacement weight should only be used as a guide. I think they are very much understated or perhaps ours being one of the last made had a heavier lay up than the prototype.

We are towing a total of 2.5 tonnes behind us and this is having put most of the easily removable heavy gear like anchors, chain, outboards and dinghy in the back of the Shogun.

Whilst our outfit is heavy the centre of gravity is low down so I find it a delight to tow and much more stable than a big heavy caravan especially in a cross wind or when overtaking HGVs!

Last time we towed to South Brittany we averaged 20 mpg with a 3.2 turbo diesel auto over 1200 miles.

I do not use a stabaliser as IMHO they are only there to help a poorly set up rig and less capable tow car.

 

[TSB240]

It's in the cabin (Hunter Delta style) as far as I understand. So mud smell may be a possibility.

Well at least I could blame the smell on the mud after a few beers!

 

[TSB240]

Now that looks quite a boat.

7 foot draft is quite deep round some parts of the east coast?

and the Menai Straits! There is a fixed keel one moored close to my base at Y Felinheli keep watching out for him sailing but maybe he needs a spring tide to get out!

When I am down in Brittany I am hoping to try one out as there are plenty on brokerage around that area. Wonder if they would do PX?

 

[grumpy_o_g]

I thought the main point of lift keels was to enable the boat to dry out AND STAY LEVEL. The Anderson, whilst it may be a fine little boat in other respects, can't do this.
I looked at this thread for some useful information (which presumably was why the OP asked the question) it seems to have degenerated into a slanging match between pro and anti Anderson 22s.

As far as I'm concerned the main reason for lifting keels is to reduce draft rather than being able to take the ground. Unless you know the ground you're settling on you're far better off putting twin keels on to it than your hull. It may be that you do know the ground at your own drying berth but, unless it's well protected, I'd still rather have a stub keel hitting the ground first. On a drying mooring the big advantage of a lifting keel is that the reduced draft will allow you more sailing time but I'd still be want to be very sure that hull could take regular grounding in lumpy conditions if needed. The other thing is that, if you don't intend to spend any time on the mooring on your boat while she's dried out, then drying at a slight angle of heel from a stub keel won't be a problem.

As for the pro and anti Anderson 22 thing, that's just the usual Seajet baiting from the usual people. There's a line between banter and unpleasant comments and I think some people have it a different place to me.

 

[tokoloshe]

As far as I'm concerned the main reason for lifting keels is to reduce draft rather than being able to take the ground. Unless you know the ground you're settling on you're far better off putting twin keels on to it than your hull. It may be that you do know the ground at your own drying berth but, unless it's well protected, I'd still rather have a stub keel hitting the ground first. On a drying mooring the big advantage of a lifting keel is that the reduced draft will allow you more sailing time but I'd still be want to be very sure that hull could take regular grounding in lumpy conditions if needed. The other thing is that, if you don't intend to spend any time on the mooring on your boat while she's dried out, then drying at a slight angle of heel from a stub keel won't be a problem.

As for the pro and anti Anderson 22 thing, that's just the usual Seajet baiting from the usual people. There's a line between banter and unpleasant comments and I think some people have it a different place to me.

+1 If regularly lying on "uncertain" mud I would prefer to have bilge/twin keels.

 

[TSB240]

As far as I'm concerned the main reason for lifting keels is to reduce draft rather than being able to take the ground. On a drying mooring the big advantage of a lifting keel is that the reduced draft will allow you more sailing time

Two of the biggest reason we have a lifting keel.

It also allows us to lock out of our dock when their is only 18" of water in the dock channel. This means we can access the dock up to an hour or more longer either side of high tide than most other users

We have never used nor needed to use the facility whilst sailing our keel has always been locked down.

I have however found we get an extra half knot under power when fully raised but directional control is very much compromised. A gust of wind on the bow will spin you round something that only flat bottomed mobo owners will understand.

I can usually access the most secluded and sheltered anchorages even at spring tides without actually drying out and dont need a dinghy to get ashore most of the time.

 

[Seajet]

OK, here we go !

MY Anderson sits perfectly level on her soft mud mooring - see the website in my signature for a pic of a neighbouring A22 - compared to twin keelers which suffer one keel digging in, the other standing on firm ground, also tipping bow down thanks to the rudder and or skeg.

Consider a single 9" ballast bulb digging in, compared to the horrible loads on splayed twin keels going in and out of the mud twice a day !

Most twin keeler owners I know are preoccupied with attention to keel bolts...

 

[Simondjuk]

Unless you know the ground you're settling on you're far better off putting twin keels on to it than your hull.

You can see what the bottom is like through a foot of water and easily find a clean spot.

We used to dry out on mud, sand and gravel without so much as putting a mark in the antifoul. Rocks we never tried, but I don't suppose many bilgies would either. Another advantage over a bilgie is that you can put people ashore into calf deep water. Finally, there's the performance difference.

 

[Seajet]

You can see what the bottom is like through a foot of water and easily find a clean spot.

We used to dry out on mud, sand and gravel without so much as putting a mark in the antifoul. Rocks we never tried, but I don't suppose many bilgies would either. Another advantage over a bilgie is that you can put people ashore into calf deep water. Finally, there's the performance difference.

Simon,

performance difference yes, but one cannot spot the bottom from even 1' in standard seawater - and by that time almost all boats will be committed to going aground whatever the seabed is like - putting crew ashore ' calf deep ' doesn't work in soft mud, as discovered by a chum who ended up getting a CG helicopter ride !

 

[AngusMcDoon]

MY Anderson sits perfectly level on her soft mud mooring

What would happen on sand? Genuine question.

 

[Simondjuk]

Simon,

performance difference yes, but one cannot spot the bottom from even 1' in standard seawater - and by that time almost all boats will be committed to going aground whatever the seabed is like - putting crew ashore ' calf deep ' doesn't work in soft mud, as discovered by a chum who ended up getting a CG helicopter ride !

Andy,

I've driven around rocks and debris on the bottom of Fifield Creek as my wife has called them out from the bow, I've avoided the stoney patches at East Head, and I've picked the cleaner looking spots of gravel when drying in various other places. I did so by seeing them through the water. Fact.

We weren't committed at that a foot either, that's when we touched, and even after a gentle touch we could back off if we wanted to.

Rest assured, I'm not stupid enough to let anyone step off my boat into soft mud, and none of my 'chums' are cretinous enough to do so. It seems you and yours differ.

 

[Simondjuk]

What would happen on sand? Genuine question.

It'd either fall over or escape that danger by performing a vertical take off. Probably the latter.

That said, it seems our Andy lives in a parallel universe in which it's impossible to see through a few inches of water, where nothing can float in less than a foot, and where if you don't acknowledge what's being pointed out to you it never happened, so I suppose the two previous options are merely the tip of an entire iceberg of possibilities!

By the way, any second now he'll tell you how you shouldn't dry out on sand anyway, as it inevitably pounds the boat in a horribly unkind fashion and is illegal in several states of America, so it's utterly irrelevant and is in no way a limitation of the flawless Andyson 22.

 

[Seajet]

What would happen on sand? Genuine question.

Angus,

a genuine answer; the A22 keel bulb is rounded on the bottom so the boat would fall over 20 degrees, possibly damaging the bilges.

Then again I'd say drying any boat out on hard sand is cruel, it would punch a twin keelers' bilges through or tip a wing keeler right over; so in my humble estimation, avoid sand moorings !

 

[Simondjuk]

Angus,

a genuine answer; the A22 keel bulb is rounded on the bottom so the boat would fall over 20 degrees, possibly damaging the bilges.

Then again I'd say drying any boat out on hard sand is cruel, it would punch a twin keelers' bilges through or tip a wing keeler right over; so in my humble estimation, avoid sand moorings !

Told you so!

 

[aquaplane]

Then again I'd say drying any boat out on hard sand is cruel, it would punch a twin keelers' bilges through or tip a wing keeler right over; so in my humble estimation, avoid sand moorings !

Don't tell Dylan that, he is always drying out on sand. I may have a go my self later in the week, it was hard to do on Windermere.

 

[Seajet]

Andy,

I've driven around rocks and debris on the bottom of Fifield Creek as my wife has called them out from the bow, I've avoided the stoney patches at East Head, and I've picked the cleaner looking spots of gravel when drying in various other places. I did so by seeing them through the water. Fact.

We weren't committed at that a foot either, that's when we touched, and even after a gentle touch we could back off if we wanted to.

Rest assured, I'm not stupid enough to let anyone step off my boat into soft mud, and none of my 'chums' are cretinous enough to do so. It seems you and yours differ.

Simon,

try to leave the insults aside.


My chum who got the helicopter ride was Chief Designer on the Fairey Delta 2 world speed record aircraft, also the transatlatic race and Falklands War winning Harrier and later the export success Hawk so was hardly a cretin.

I have to say I rather doubt your claims re stoney bits at East Head - I've only sailed there since 1970 - and being able to back off if aground in 1' depth

Andy

 

[AngusMcDoon]

...it would punch a twin keelers' bilges through...

I thoroughly agree. Dreadful risky thing to do. Look at the carnage here in Solva of all these dried out bilge keel boats with their keels mercilessly punched through their hulls by the hard sand...

 

[Seajet]

I thoroughly agree. Dreadful risky thing to do. Look at the carnage here in Solva of all these dried out bilge keel boats with their keels mercilessly punched through their hulls by the hard sand...

Angus,

be cruel to your own boat if you must...


Per Ardua Ad Astra Asbestos, Nil El Illegitimo Carborundum.

Andy