Which sailboat?

[Earthlyone]

To All of You

You really are a fantastic group of people for helping, guiding & advising me. I know time is precious & I am very grateful to you all for giving me yours as I navigate my first boat purchase.
I have made contact with some local sailors in Torpoint through a couple of Facebook groups & now have a few people that are RYA instructors, yachtmasters, some others who are lifelong sailors, all willing to teach me the basics, take me out on their boats before I get mine, show me around my own boat, Etc.

I truly feel like I have found community & will be sure to pay it all forward when I have the experience & knowledge to do so in years to come.
Thanks everyone.

 

[Kelpie]

I have been thinking about this & would like to have a solid fuel stove fitted, I think it’d be sensible & enjoyable. Thanks Fr J, your advice is always very much appreciated.

Solid fuel is certainly nice but for daily practicality there's a lot to be said for diesel drip feed. A tank of diesel is an easier, cleaner, and more compact way of storing energy than bags of coal or wood. And you can leave it burning for days at a time. Like a seagoing Aga.
Refleks are a good brand, not cheap though.

 

[Wansworth]

I have been thinking about this & would like to have a solid fuel stove fitted, I think it’d be sensible & enjoyable. Thanks Fr J, your advice is always very much appreciated.

Had two wooden boats with wood stoves,really drive the damp out and harvesting drift wood is fun although a bag of anthracite nuts goes along way

 

[Tranona]

Difficult to fit solid fuel heaters in a boat like a Longbow and not the most practical to use. If on shorepower, tube heaters and fan heaters are good. solid fuel heaters are for nostalgic nights spent up a deserted creek in an old wooden boat and fueled by driftwood (or bits of the boat as they rot away!) Nearly bought a boat with a real fireplace which the owner said had not been used to his knowledge for at least 20 years. Did look good with its Delft tiled surround.

 

[Earthlyone]

Great points about heating, stoves, diesel, Etc.

here is more info from the seller….
It doesn't have a dinghy. There are davits at the back to mount one. Also an outboard bracket. It has a 15kg cqr anchor on 45 metres of 8 mm chain. Plus another 30 metres of rode. It has a lewmar electric windlass. 6 fenders. Plenty of mooring lines. The running rigging is less than 2 years old and standing rigging about 6 or 7 but I had it checked with A2 rigging. It has speed log. Depth sounder. Compass. Radio. With new aerial. Full set of distress flares. 3 fire extinguishers. 1 fire blanket. 2 gas bottles. Nearly new cooker. New hot water system and 240v shore power. New water pump for domestic water shower etc. Auto bilge pump. I learnt to sail in her. She's my first boat and very easy to sail. All lines are back to cockpit for single handed sailing. It has a Tiller pilot. Lazy Jack's and stack pack. Mainsail and Genoa both in excellent condition. I replaced the boom 2 years ago so it slab reefs easy. New navigation lights. New lights inside (leds) 2 new batteries just a month old. Smart charger. Everything you would need to move straight onboard.

I think I will go & view this one… any objections or advice? Anything else I should ask? (I will ask him again about the age/condition of engine)
Thanks everyone (I feel like I have lots of brothers & fathers ?)

Just been told the engine is…
The engine is not the original. It was upgraded to a volvo penta 2002 29 HP. Very reliable and only around 1000 hours. Fuel tank was changed at same time to a stainless steel one.
Fin Keel (1.4 Draft) & has aluminium beaching legs.
They seller will sail the boat from Falmouth to Torpoint for/with me but I can keep it down there on his mooring until mine is ready in September.

 

[capnsensible]

Wow 22 years… that’s amazing! And 2 in 33ft, thanks for the confidence boost for little old me in 31ft ?

Moodys are roomy. We also sailed across the Atlantic and back twice from Gibraltar. As you do.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

The point about stove heaters is that they give out dry heat as indeed do electric fan heaters which in boats in your range will always require being connected to shore power. It may not be easy or practical to fit a free standing one in a Longbow ( I don't know the boat) but it will certainly be able to have a bulkhead drip feed diesel one fitted. Expensive and you would be able to buy a lot of electricity for the cost and may never break even but they give the option of heat whilst away from your berth and the West Country has lots of such places to visit especially in the autumn cooler months. You could always have a cheap fan heater for when you want quick heat and don't want to wait whilst the stove gets going.

 

[Kelpie]

Great points about heating, stoves, diesel, Etc.

here is more info from the seller….
It doesn't have a dinghy. There are davits at the back to mount one. Also an outboard bracket. It has a 15kg cqr anchor on 45 metres of 8 mm chain. Plus another 30 metres of rode. It has a lewmar electric windlass. 6 fenders. Plenty of mooring lines. The running rigging is less than 2 years old and standing rigging about 6 or 7 but I had it checked with A2 rigging. It has speed log. Depth sounder. Compass. Radio. With new aerial. Full set of distress flares. 3 fire extinguishers. 1 fire blanket. 2 gas bottles. Nearly new cooker. New hot water system and 240v shore power. New water pump for domestic water shower etc. Auto bilge pump. I learnt to sail in her. She's my first boat and very easy to sail. All lines are back to cockpit for single handed sailing. It has a Tiller pilot. Lazy Jack's and stack pack. Mainsail and Genoa both in excellent condition. I replaced the boom 2 years ago so it slab reefs easy. New navigation lights. New lights inside (leds) 2 new batteries just a month old. Smart charger. Everything you would need to move straight onboard.

I think I will go & view this one… any objections or advice? Anything else I should ask? (I will ask him again about the age/condition of engine)
Thanks everyone (I feel like I have lots of brothers & fathers ?)

Just been told the engine is…
The engine is not the original. It was upgraded to a volvo penta 2002 29 HP. Very reliable and only around 1000 hours. Fuel tank was changed at same time to a stainless steel one.
Fin Keel (1.4 Draft) & has aluminium beaching legs.
They seller will sail the boat from Falmouth to Torpoint for/with me but I can keep it down there on his mooring until mine is ready in September.

There's certainly a lot to like there. Beaching legs can be quite handy, if used with care you can use drying harbours etc and save a lot of money when you clean the bottom or change anodes.
Budget c.£500 for a secondhand dinghy and outboard, although it's a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' matter.
Is there any solar power? Its not expensive to fit, c.£200 will get you a good basic system.
A fridge is a very nice thing to have too, that's a bit of a bigger job unless you have a convenient space in which to fit a standalone unit- budget minimum £250 for that.

 

[Earthlyone]

There's certainly a lot to like there. Beaching legs can be quite handy, if used with care you can use drying harbours etc and save a lot of money when you clean the bottom or change anodes.
Budget c.£500 for a secondhand dinghy and outboard, although it's a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' matter.
Is there any solar power? Its not expensive to fit, c.£200 will get you a good basic system.
A fridge is a very nice thing to have too, that's a bit of a bigger job unless you have a convenient space in which to fit a standalone unit- budget minimum £250 for that.

Thanks Kelpie, I did have a quick look to price those things up & I am going to go & view it. If it is all it’s been explained to be then I will be happy to get a survey done. No Solar but I am quite ok to buy/fit that myself, I have been taking apart, fixing, & building small electronic systems since I was knee high to a grass hopper! ?

 

[cherod]

You have to ditch the prejudice on multihulls , they really are the way forward in cruising / live aboard , yes they tend to be expensive but cheap ( er ) ones can be found , a good starting point would be eg ., an Iriqoi , more room per £ than any similar priced mono , or up to a Prout ( not everyones choice but functional boat ) , a 30’ possible for your budget . I could give you a list , given time ?

 

[Earthlyone]

You have to ditch the prejudice on multihulls , they really are the way forward in cruising / live aboard , yes they tend to be expensive but cheap ( er ) ones can be found , a good starting point would be eg ., an Iriqoi , more room per £ than any similar priced mono , or up to a Prout ( not everyones choice but functional boat ) , a 30’ possible for your budget . I could give you a list , given time ?

Oh I agree & as nice as they are, the cost more in both maintenance & mooring fees! There isn’t any getting around that. Yes I could purchase one but my monthly expenditure would be at least 50% more. Perhaps I will get one when I grow up ?

 

[Tranona]

You have to ditch the prejudice on multihulls , they really are the way forward in cruising / live aboard , yes they tend to be expensive but cheap ( er ) ones can be found , a good starting point would be eg ., an Iriqoi , more room per £ than any similar priced mono , or up to a Prout ( not everyones choice but functional boat ) , a 30’ possible for your budget . I could give you a list , given time ?

They are only the way forward if you have a large enough budget to buy one of the newer 35' and upwards models, although if you are marina based your cost are between 50-100% higher and a 30- 35' monohull for a fraction of the cost is more than adequate for a solo or couple liveaboard.

 

[cherod]

They are only the way forward if you have a large enough budget to buy one of the newer 35' and upwards models, although if you are marina based your cost are between 50-100% higher and a 30- 35' monohull for a fraction of the cost is more than adequate for a solo or couple liveaboard.

Why do “ adequate “ when for a some effort ( in sourcing ) and a little extra expense ( i dont know where this 50 - 100% is coming from ) you can have comparative luxury ?? ( go back to work fof 6 months , put in the hours , reap / enjoy the rewards )

 

[Tranona]

Why do “ adequate “ when for a some effort ( in sourcing ) and a little extra expense ( i dont know where this 50 - 100% is coming from ) you can have comparative luxury ?? ( go back to work fof 6 months , put in the hours , reap / enjoy the rewards )

Mooring costs in a marina are typically 50-100% higher per foot of length. I can understand why some people like the extra space of cats and are prepared to put up with the downsides, particularly the inferior sailing and motoring of many of the small designs suitable for a liveaboard. However to describe them as "the future" when nothing that fits the bill has been made for nearly 40 years is stretching things. Sure, you can find an old Catalac or smaller Prout, but in your search you will pass far more Westerlys, Moodys etc that are equally suitable for liveaboard. I use the word "adequate" because sailing boats in general and smaller ones in particular are not designed for permanent living on board so it depends on the compromises you are prepared to make

 

[Kelpie]

There's another Westerly, a Renown this time, on FB for £14.5k.

Boat shopping is fun... Especially with other people's money

 

[Earthlyone]

There's another Westerly, a Renown this time, on FB for £14.5k.

Boat shopping is fun... Especially with other people's money

That’s hilarious ? Having a personal shopper is also fun… so thank you Kelpie! A good friend of mine who owns a Moody 33 is going to look at the Westerly Longbow for me today as they are on the next Marina over. If all is good I will have a look & get a survey. I have been quoted £545 for pre-purchase inspection & report plus £60 for valuation (this will be valid for insurance companies)… does this sound about right? Will take a look at the Renown now but think I saw ? it last night. Thanks again Kelpie, happy shoppers ?

 

[Tranona]

Yes, price right for the survey, but £60 extra for a valuation is a bit naughty!

 

[Earthlyone]

Hey there my trusted advisors,

how does this sound, it’s from the 2019 survey….

8. Immersed Hull
8.i Below the waterline was visually inspected and sounded at closely spaced intervals with a surveyor’s hammer. No structural or laminate defects were detected.
8.ii Particular attention was paid to the keel stub, the skeg and rudder blade for damage repair and all were found to be in good order.
8.iii Inspection of the wetted surface found blistering in the surface of the gelcoat and surface tissue which were consistent with osmosis in the hull. This osmosis was later confirmed with high moisture readings below the waterline, ranging from 22% - 24% H2O (Wood), when readings were taken using a capacitance type Sovereign MKII moisture metre, on scale A at regular intervals around the hull.
8.iv This type of measurement does not show the actual percentage within the laminate but indicates the presence of moisture on a relative scale when compared to the topsides and known values for laminate in good condition and free from osmosis.
8.v Over the layup period of 2018-19 localised repairs have been carried out to the
visible blisters to help maintain the surface profile of the hull and prevent those blisters from worsening. Inspection was made during these repairs and they were carried out to a good standard using epoxy primers and fillers. These repairs will not resolve the osmosis in the hull but will help to prevent further surface damage in the short to medium term. The osmosis is not of structural concern and is consistent to a large extent with the age of the yacht.

She’s an old boat (1972) so I expected some things to be a little worn.

Many thanks ?
Leigh

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It depends on how you view the money you will put into the boat and when you think you might sell it, I think it will become increasingly difficult to sell an osmosis affected boat and the only buyers will be those that intend to take care of the boat themselves during lay-up periods. Professional treatment is now exceeding the market value of such boats and certainly will in the future, buyers will be looking to buy very cheaply.

 

[Kelpie]

The saying goes, no boat has ever sunk from osmosis.
But it's also true to say there's really no need to buy in to a known problem unless the price is irresistible.
How much of a hurry are you in? Yet another saying- Westerlies are like buses, there will be another one along in a minute.