Which Liferaft

[oldmanofthehills]

I’d appreciate the Forum’s comments on the above. Like many others here, I’ve sailed for around fifty years, and so for many of these years a half inflated Avon served as a notional last resort. In latter years I had a Liferaft on the stern but of course, never used.

I now mainly sail single handed (the dog is learning but her knots are rubbish) so my daughters are nagging me to think safety, so lifejacket, PLB, etc. I’ve downsized to a 27 ft motorsailer (an LM27) but of course, stowage space is limited so although I could possibly fit a canister raft on the aft rail, it’s a bit tight and I’d prefer something smaller that I could stow under the aft deck.

So, I’ve been looking at the 2 or 4 person ‘doughnut’ compact leisure rafts made by Lazilas and others which pack up small and weigh under half the weight of a conventional valise or canister raft. Clearly, as the vendors state, these are not ‘proper’ life rafts but are halfway between a raft and a lifejacket.

I hired a standard valise raft for a trip in the Spring but at 35kg I’m not sure that my fast approaching 80 year old body is capable of lifting this from the cabin to overboard in an emergency, so a canister on the stern is probably the only realistic option, hence I’m considering the doughnuts.

Apologies for the long context for my question but does anyone have any experience of these?

Thanks, Bob

We have an LM27 and our canister liferaft Bracket fits nicely outside starboard stern rail

Which is where on wants it for quick deploy and use. If hit by a ship you will have very little time to deploy, and if it’s storm damage crawling to foredeck might well see you washed overboard and drowned before you get to the canister release

And if you think you could readily lift canister over the rails in bad seas you must be superman and can fly to safety

Ours is a seago but ocean safety are comparable

 

[michael_w]

IRRC the IMOCAs carry 2 rafts for the Vendee Globe. When Kevin Escoffier sank he didn't have time to use the main one, but grabbed the spare off the stern.

 

[Cspirit]

Many thanks to everyone for your thoughts. I have gone down the Waypoint route - I feel it’s the best compromise for me. Thanks again!

 

[Midnight Drifter]

We bought a Waypoint 4 Person Coastal Single Tube Liferaft. It has the huge advantage over the Lalizas version of a self-erecting canopy.

I bought this because my partner would never have been able to extract the (ancient) valise from the cockpit locker it has lived in since it was last serviced in 2010, and even I found it a struggle.

The Waypoint is not cheap, and not something I would like to spend more than a few hours in, but better than no liferaft. Sailing offshore in a small boat is a constant series of compromises.

- W

I bought a Waypoint 4 Person Coastal Liferaft in 2021 and it is overdue for a service. I contacted a couple of the service stations mentioned on the Waypoint website, and was told that they no longer service Waypoint liferafts because they cannot get the parts. I emailed Waypoint a week ago and am still awaiting a reply, so I am starting to get concerned. Has anyone recently had a Waypoint liferaft serviced?

 

[Daydream believer]

I bought a Waypoint 4 Person Coastal Liferaft in 2021 and it is overdue for a service. I contacted a couple of the service stations mentioned on the Waypoint website, and was told that they no longer service Waypoint liferafts because they cannot get the parts. I emailed Waypoint a week ago and am still awaiting a reply, so I am starting to get concerned. Has anyone recently had a Waypoint liferaft serviced?

Have you tried using a telephone?

 

[Midnight Drifter]

Have you tried using a telephone?

Yes, of course. The phone number given on the Waypoint website for servicing did not work. I tried another number and spoke to someone who said they would get back to me but have not yet done so.

 

[MikeBz]

If I go to “Products” on Waypoint’s website then top of the list is “NEW FOR 2014 ISO 9650-1 COMMERCIAL LIFERAFT“. Which doesn’t bode well?

 

[ducked]

Nothing if foolproof as found in many years of design as fools are so invective

Well, I'm naturally invective, but I restrain myself on here, cos of the strictly moderating ******s

 

[ducked]

I’d appreciate the Forum’s comments on the above. Like many others here, I’ve sailed for around fifty years, and so for many of these years a half inflated Avon served as a notional last resort. In latter years I had a Liferaft on the stern but of course, never used.

I now mainly sail single handed (the dog is learning but her knots are rubbish) so my daughters are nagging me to think safety, so lifejacket, PLB, etc. I’ve downsized to a 27 ft motorsailer (an LM27) but of course, stowage space is limited so although I could possibly fit a canister raft on the aft rail, it’s a bit tight and I’d prefer something smaller that I could stow under the aft deck.

So, I’ve been looking at the 2 or 4 person ‘doughnut’ compact leisure rafts made by Lazilas and others which pack up small and weigh under half the weight of a conventional valise or canister raft. Clearly, as the vendors state, these are not ‘proper’ life rafts but are halfway between a raft and a lifejacket.

I hired a standard valise raft for a trip in the Spring but at 35kg I’m not sure that my fast approaching 80 year old body is capable of lifting this from the cabin to overboard in an emergency, so a canister on the stern is probably the only realistic option, hence I’m considering the doughnuts.

Apologies for the long context for my question but does anyone have any experience of these?

Thanks, Bob

I had a quick look for 1-man rafts for pilots. There was a trace of a USMC surplus model on Ebay for 150USD, but no longer available

This is apparently a candidate for that market. Unclear from the ad if it is in fact an issued item.

https://beaufort.group/air/fast-jet-aircrew-protection/aerolite-one-single-seat-liferaft/

Probably very expensive and I'm not convinced it would stay upright, but then I suppose a plane, unlike a boat, isn't especially likely to sink in a storm, so one is more likely to get away with it.

There are a few other (less robust looking) new models online. Seem to start at about a grand, and to be even less convincing.

I dunno.

I wonder if survivability enhancements to the Avon. like a sea anchor, perhaps water ballast bags, and maybe a canopy (or a survival bag. I already have a bivvy bag I could use) might be worthwhile.

Could perhaps be prudently (and more cost effectively) combined with an immersion suit.

 

[Midnight Drifter]

If I go to “Products” on Waypoint’s website then top of the list is “NEW FOR 2014 ISO 9650-1 COMMERCIAL LIFERAFT“. Which doesn’t bode well?

Waypoint finally responded to my email, giving me a quote for servicing my liferaft. They also rang me. My impression now is that the organisation itself is fine, but that their website lets them down - it is seriously out of date. Most of the service stations currently listed no longer service Waypoint liferafts, and Waypoint prefers to service the the liferafts themselves as they have had some bad experiences with some service stations. They say they are going to update the website asap.

 

[Cerebus]

I’d appreciate the Forum’s comments on the above. Like many others here, I’ve sailed for around fifty years, and so for many of these years a half inflated Avon served as a notional last resort. In latter years I had a Liferaft on the stern but of course, never used.

I now mainly sail single handed (the dog is learning but her knots are rubbish) so my daughters are nagging me to think safety, so lifejacket, PLB, etc. I’ve downsized to a 27 ft motorsailer (an LM27) but of course, stowage space is limited so although I could possibly fit a canister raft on the aft rail, it’s a bit tight and I’d prefer something smaller that I could stow under the aft deck.

So, I’ve been looking at the 2 or 4 person ‘doughnut’ compact leisure rafts made by Lazilas and others which pack up small and weigh under half the weight of a conventional valise or canister raft. Clearly, as the vendors state, these are not ‘proper’ life rafts but are halfway between a raft and a lifejacket.

I hired a standard valise raft for a trip in the Spring but at 35kg I’m not sure that my fast approaching 80 year old body is capable of lifting this from the cabin to overboard in an emergency, so a canister on the stern is probably the only realistic option, hence I’m considering the doughnuts.

Apologies for the long context for my question but does anyone have any experience of these?

Thanks, Bob

A link 3 down or so suggests £1k plus for a lightweight liferaft.

People are giving away 20 foot boats.

I am not suggesting you take one and tow it.

Have a look for light aircraft aeroplane life rafts if you really want a light liferaft and if price is a factor is my opinion; they are supposed to be compact and lightweight.

 

[Cerebus]

I had a quick look for 1-man rafts for pilots. There was a trace of a USMC surplus model on Ebay for 150USD, but no longer available

This is apparently a candidate for that market. Unclear from the ad if it is in fact an issued item.

Aerolite One Single Seat Life Raft

Probably very expensive and I'm not convinced it would stay upright, but then I suppose a plane, unlike a boat, isn't especially likely to sink in a storm, so one is more likely to get away with it.

There are a few other (less robust looking) new models online. Seem to start at about a grand, and to be even less convincing.

I dunno.

I wonder if survivability enhancements to the Avon. like a sea anchor, perhaps water ballast bags, and maybe a canopy (or a survival bag. I already have a bivvy bag I could use) might be worthwhile.

Could perhaps be prudently (and more cost effectively) combined with an immersion suit.

I have two ‘ejector seat’ liferafts, not as new as the model in the photo (mine have orange canopies which seems sensible, and iirc a light on top)

Not brand new. Fit into a box about A4 size. Remarkable.

Clever design.

One has a inflatable floor.

I have them in storage somewhere. Will have to sell a lot of things that I am not using.

JUST SEEN THIS IS AN OLD THREAD; so probably not a lot of use.

 

[ducked]

I have two ‘ejector seat’ liferafts, not as new as the model in the photo (mine have orange canopies which seems sensible, and iirc a light on top)

Not brand new. Fit into a box about A4 size. Remarkable.

Clever design.

One has a inflatable floor.

I have them in storage somewhere. Will have to sell a lot of things that I am not using.

JUST SEEN THIS IS AN OLD THREAD; so probably not a lot of use.

Military lack of orangeness and illumination would probably be a sign of the "assymetric warfare" times.

People in jets these days are used to bombing people with a lot less stuff than they have, so might not want to optimise visual searchability, instead relying on transponders.

Re "old thread", how so (assuming that mattered, which I dont really see)? Seems to have started Aug this year, and to be currently active.

 

[seeSimon]

Military lack of orangeness and illumination would probably be a sign of the "assymetric warfare" times.

People in jets these days are used to bombing people with a lot less stuff than they have, so might not want to optimise visual searchability, instead relying on transponders.

Re "old thread", how so (assuming that mattered, which I dont really see)? Seems to have started Aug this year, and to be currently active.

There are still orange/yellow rafts in use in UK MOD somewhere, hereabouts we see the RNAS Culdrose folk practising off the S Cornwall coast with them. I've not noticed any black/green ones....but then that appears to be the idea!

 

[Cerebus]

Military lack of orangeness and illumination would probably be a sign of the "assymetric warfare" times.

People in jets these days are used to bombing people with a lot less stuff than they have, so might not want to optimise visual searchability, instead relying on transponders.

Re "old thread", how so (assuming that mattered, which I dont really see)? Seems to have started Aug this year, and to be currently active.

Yes, I misread the date.

 

[ducked]

There are still orange/yellow rafts in use in UK MOD somewhere, hereabouts we see the RNAS Culdrose folk practising off the S Cornwall coast with them. I've not noticed any black/green ones....but then that appears to be the idea!

Seems possible they use hi-vis (perhaps older) stuff in training that they might not use operationally, both to enhance safety and to avoid wear and tear on the operational gear

I dunno though, was just my speculation. Different forces might have different approaches. Maybe the US are more self consciously macho.

 

[jamie N]

I bought this the other day. I was slightly sceptical as to what the reality of it might be, but having inspected it on arrival, I'm really impressed.
Firstly, I know what I'm looking at, and it's the real McCoy. It's not been actively used, and is basically 'factory fresh'. It does have signs of being handled, which is SOP for having been taken from a cabin to the muster point on a 'Sunday morning muster drill', scores of which I've attended.
The suit was originally issued to the offshore tug "Viking Sentinel" in 2021, which has been magic marked onto the buoyancy collar.
The certified SOLAS standard of this suit with inherent insulation, is heat loss >2°C in circulating water between 0°C & 2°C, over a 6 hour period.
The suit is designed to be donned within a 2 minute time frame, which is quite achievable. I believe that in the world of my GK24 it's more likely that a situation will develop over a time period, probably weather related, where a cautious mind will be prompted to don the suit before it's needed, and then (hopefully) repack it after the situation has passed, however should it occur immediately, there's a 2 minute donning period.
If I do have to abandon, I do have my PLB for summoning help. I'm not ever planning on being over a 100 miles from land, indeed my longest planned trip will take me from Orkney to Faeroe to Lewis, an area where there are other vessels to react, plus it's in range of SAR, albeit our Solent based brethren might feel agoraphobic in this area.
To deploy a life raft from a GK24 would present greater problems, and one would have to don a similar survival suit to stay warm in the liferaft itself.
Having done many sea survival courses over the years (RGIT folks know where I'm coming from), it's the right decision in my mind.
Of course, on larger boats and those with crew, this won't be the optimal solution, but as a small boat solo sailor I reckon that it's OK.

 

[Cerebus]

View attachment 205607
I bought this the other day. I was slightly sceptical as to what the reality of it might be, but having inspected it on arrival, I'm really impressed.
Firstly, I know what I'm looking at, and it's the real McCoy. It's not been actively used, and is basically 'factory fresh'. It does have signs of being handled, which is SOP for having been taken from a cabin to the muster point on a 'Sunday morning muster drill', scores of which I've attended.
The suit was originally issued to the offshore tug "Viking Sentinel" in 2021, which has been magic marked onto the buoyancy collar.
The certified SOLAS standard of this suit with inherent insulation, is heat loss >2°C in circulating water between 0°C & 2°C, over a 6 hour period.
The suit is designed to be donned within a 2 minute time frame, which is quite achievable. I believe that in the world of my GK24 it's more likely that a situation will develop over a time period, probably weather related, where a cautious mind will be prompted to don the suit before it's needed, and then (hopefully) repack it after the situation has passed, however should it occur immediately, there's a 2 minute donning period.
If I do have to abandon, I do have my PLB for summoning help. I'm not ever planning on being over a 100 miles from land, indeed my longest planned trip will take me from Orkney to Faeroe to Lewis, an area where there are other vessels to react, plus it's in range of SAR, albeit our Solent based brethren might feel agoraphobic in this area.
To deploy a life raft from a GK24 would present greater problems, and one would have to don a similar survival suit to stay warm in the liferaft itself.
Having done many sea survival courses over the years (RGIT folks know where I'm coming from), it's the right decision in my mind.
Of course, on larger boats and those with crew, this won't be the optimal solution, but as a small boat solo sailor I reckon that it's OK.

Is it GoreTex?
Is it Nomex (flame retardant)?
Is it made by Multifabs

If so, bargain, normally £400 2nd hand.

 

[jamie N]

It is flame retardant, not Gore Tex nor made by Multifabs, and meets or exceeds these standards:

 

[seeSimon]

View attachment 205607
I bought this the other day. I was slightly sceptical as to what the reality of it might be, but having inspected it on arrival, I'm really impressed.
Firstly, I know what I'm looking at, and it's the real McCoy. It's not been actively used, and is basically 'factory fresh'. It does have signs of being handled, which is SOP for having been taken from a cabin to the muster point on a 'Sunday morning muster drill', scores of which I've attended.
The suit was originally issued to the offshore tug "Viking Sentinel" in 2021, which has been magic marked onto the buoyancy collar.
The certified SOLAS standard of this suit with inherent insulation, is heat loss >2°C in circulating water between 0°C & 2°C, over a 6 hour period.
The suit is designed to be donned within a 2 minute time frame, which is quite achievable. I believe that in the world of my GK24 it's more likely that a situation will develop over a time period, probably weather related, where a cautious mind will be prompted to don the suit before it's needed, and then (hopefully) repack it after the situation has passed, however should it occur immediately, there's a 2 minute donning period.
If I do have to abandon, I do have my PLB for summoning help. I'm not ever planning on being over a 100 miles from land, indeed my longest planned trip will take me from Orkney to Faeroe to Lewis, an area where there are other vessels to react, plus it's in range of SAR, albeit our Solent based brethren might feel agoraphobic in this area.
To deploy a life raft from a GK24 would present greater problems, and one would have to don a similar survival suit to stay warm in the liferaft itself.
Having done many sea survival courses over the years (RGIT folks know where I'm coming from), it's the right decision in my mind.
Of course, on larger boats and those with crew, this won't be the optimal solution, but as a small boat solo sailor I reckon that it's OK.

A good buy. I agree with your logic, and have used a similar equipment regime for several years. I have two suits.
Small yot, single handing in S UK coastal waters, well served by SAR.

As I'm sure you know, It's a MN SOLAS approved immersion/survival suit, not a CAA "flight suit" (where they are often goretex, and flame retardant). A statutory requirement on MN ships.

Faroes on my boat would freak me out a bit, tbh!

Having been forced by my local race committee (and the RYA, so that committee tell me...no response from RYA...) to recently "upgrade" to a 4 man raft I can indeed confirm that the raft is about as much of a useless pita as I expected. 32kg Valise can barely be lifted on/off the boat...in port...
Luckily it was relatively "cheap" second-hand, and passed service (much less cheap!) ok.

I won't go on, as I've moaned about this "new requirement " several times already.