Which Ensign?

[cruisingsam]

Which ensign can I fly?

Rascal is based in Ireland and owned by an Englishman and an Irishman (no jokes please!!)

We are both resident in Ireland.

She will be registered under the ISA Certificate of Identity scheme.

We do want to go through the full registration process for either Ireland or the UK.

As I understand it we cannot fly the Irish ensign as you have to be wholly Irish owned or be on the full register.

We cannot fly the Red ensign as we are not UK registered, as we cannot register under the SSR as neither of us are resident in the UK.

So which, if any, ensign can we fly?

 

[Mike_Martin]

If you have a UK passport and a UK Ship Radio Licence allocating UK callsign and MMSI number she can wear a Red Ensign! Or if you hold the ROI equivalent she can wear the Tricolour. As a few thousand Med ex-Pats can affirm it doesn't matter where you live if the boat is not offficially registered, it goes on your Nationality.

Mike

 

[cruisingsam]

Hi Mike,
I have a UK passport but the guy I own Rascal with has an Irish passport. We have a ROI ships radio license and callsign/mmsi. My reading is we fall between the cracks on ensigns as we are dual nationalitily owners??

 

[arto]

Surely it's down to where the boat is registered and has nothing to do with the nationality of the owner.

(Presumably this is why it's possible for there to be so many big ships registered in Panama and Liberia when presumably their owners are nationals of other countries).

 

[jonjo]

Re: Another ensign quandry.

My Yacht is registered in Caen, France.
The VHF is registered in France.
Berthed in Portsmouth.
I live and work in the UK and hold a UK passport.
Politically I would be happy to use a Euro ensign if legal.

 

[Viking]

Re: Another ensign quandry.

Being French registered you can!!!!

 

[pragmatist]

Re: Another ensign quandry.

Theoretically under UK legislation I believe it ain't - but I've been wanting to do it for ages - fancy a nice big Euro ensign with UJ defacement - suspect it would cause more of a riot than some of the things I say on this forum tho' - one day when I've had the odd glass or two of something I'll make one up, fly it and see what flak flies back /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Personally I think its a nonsense that the French can fly a defaced EU ensign and its not "accepted" here. Ducks beneath parapet smartly ...

 

[pessimist]

Re: Another ensign quandry.

[ QUOTE ]
wanting to do it for ages - fancy a nice big Euro ensign with UJ defacement

[/ QUOTE ]

Articulated in which plane?

 

[MASH]

Re: Another ensign quandry.

Nice big euro flag is a nice idea (just don't go calling it an ensign) as long as it is in little squares and on a hook in the heads.

Prag, it matters not what we think of these things, that is just how they are. In France you can pee in the street. Here?
Different ships, different cap tallies. And I'm proud of mine.

 

[arto]

Re: Another ensign quandry.

Peeing in the street? Pretty much normal behaviour during the evenings in London these days.

 

[MASH]

Re: Another ensign quandry.

Hmm, perhaps not the best example, I agree!

 

[Sybarite]

Re: Another ensign quandry.

" In France you can pee in the street " - and you can get prosecuted for it as in the UK....

John

 

[Sybarite]

Re: Another ensign quandry.

No you cant.

John

 

[Sybarite]

Not as simple as that I think. I live in France and my boat is registered there. Because I have a British passport I was not allowed to wear the French flag and was obliged to wear the red ensign. The "Acte de Francisation" is reserved for French nationals.

Some customs men believe that the rules have changed but they are unsure of themselves. When I asked for confirmation at the Douanes stand at the last Salon Nautique in Paris they confirmed to me that it was correct for me to continue to wear the red ensign.

The customs men who challenged me said that I should have an SSR cert. I told them that one had to be a resident Brit to get this. The only alternative would have been to get full registration. As this would involve physically bringing the boat to the UK for measurement etc I told them that I would categorically refuse to do this: danger of the crossing (..!!) additional cost for me compared to a French national (discriminatory) Each time they told me that they would seek clarification and come back to me. They never did.

John

 

[bobfrost]

http://www.wycombe.gov.uk/news/news.asp?step=2&pid=601

Slightly off subject but this link relates to the first prosecution in High Wycombe for urinating in public in a 'designated area' (2002)

If it is illegal to pee in the street why did they have to use a new by-law? Is one allowed to pee outside the designated area?

Apocraphacally (sp) I was always told that it was legal to pee against the offside wheels of a brewery dray wagon.

 

[Shakey]

IMHO, the ensign refers to the boat not to the owners.

If Irish law doesn't allow you to register the boat as Irish due to their nationality requirements, then you can probably register the boat as British and wear a red ensign. I don't think you need to register under the SSR to show the red ensign.

I could of course be wrong.....

You could register the boat as Panamanian or Liberian if you're really stuck. ;-)

 

[pragmatist]

[ QUOTE ]
You could register the boat as Panamanian or Liberian if you're really stuck. ;-)

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably cheaper too - certainly than renewing full registration /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[cruisingsam]

Thanks for all this!!
The problem is that we can register in Ireland, the UK, Panama, Liberia etc etc on the full register if we wanted but the cost is extortionate, she is "only" a 24ft yacht. That is why we are going with the ISA Certificate of Registration.
The Irish rules say any yacht with full registration can fly the Tricolour but only yachts with wholly Irish ownership can fly the flag if not on the full register.
Reading the MCA website seems to be the same for the UK.
I think we'll go with the view that when I'm out then it's the red ensign and when it's my co-owner it's the Tricolour!

 

[Guest]

Where a boat is not registered in Britain, if she is under 24m in length she can fly the appropriate British ensign provided (i) she is not registered in any other country; AND (ii) all the owners are "qualified owners".

To quote the definition of "qualified owners":
""qualified owners" means persons of such description qualified to own British ships as is prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State"

I can't find a copy of the Sec of State's regulations - clearly the English owner will be a "qualified owner", the question is whether the Irish one is too - the law clearly states that ALL owners must be. I suspect that Irish citizens can be "qualified owners", but you should check this.

The relevant bit of legislation is S. 1(2) of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995.

 

[Mike_Martin]

You have RoI callsign which means you are notified to the ITU and Coastguards world-wide as an RoI vessel. She should really be wearing the tri-colour.

Mike