Which British flag as guest flag or courtesy flag?

[davidaprice]

I was discussing flag etiquette today at the Helsinki Boat Show with a flag expert from the Finnish yachting association. They have a new book on yacht flags and flag etiquette, and in it they show an example of a British flag being flown at the port spreader when a Finnish yacht has a British guest aboard.

The British flag shown is a small red ensign. I'd always understood that the red ensign is only used as the yacht's main ensign at the stern, and that as a guest flag or a courtesy flag (when a foreign yacht visits the UK) you should use a small union flag (shouldn't call it a union jack unless it's flown at a jackstaff).

So which is right, small red ensign or small union flag? Opinions welcome, but authoritative references even more so, as I promised to report back to him.

 

[Quandary]

Many of the European boats that come through the canal here fly a saltire but some fly a small red ensign, I have occasionally seen a union flag but it is rare. But you could tell your friend that if it was Scotland he was coming too he could fly any flegs he likes.
My Finngulf came with a Finnish flag, full size, I flew it a few times because of all the cheery waves I got from other yachts, must look it out.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Small red ensign.

"Although a custom rather than a legal requirement, most countries expect that a courtesy flag (a small version of the country's maritime ensign) should be hoisted by foreign flagged vessels as a signal, acknowledging that they are in foreign territorial waters." - RYA

 

[davidaprice]

Thanks. I found the same answer for courtesy flags here: https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollecti...LAG ETIQUETTE AND VISUAL SIGNALS - PART I.pdf (middle of page 2): "The Red Ensign is the correct courtesy flag for all foreign vessels visiting UK territorial waters."

But no mention of flying a national flag at the port spreader for a foreign guest. Is this just a Finnish custom?

 

[Ningaloo]

I'm not sure that such a "visitor" flag follows the same rules as a courtesy flag for foreign vessels.
I own a British registered yacht and hold Australian citizenship so fly an Australian national flag from my port spreader. The Australian maritime flag also has a red background, but I fly the more familiar blue flag as I feel this is more recognisable.
I should say that I rarely see any leisure vessels flying a maritime flag in Australia. The national flag is more frequently used, especially on Australia Day!

 

[LadyInBed]

But no mention of flying a national flag at the left spreader for a foreign guest. Is this just a Finnish custom?

I wouldn't do it, it seems a bit pretentious. Plus if I had any Scandinavians visiting I wouldn't have any of their flags on board.

 

[alant]

Many of the European boats that come through the canal here fly a saltire but some fly a small red ensign, I have occasionally seen a union flag but it is rare. But you could tell your friend that if it was Scotland he was coming too he could fly any flegs he likes.
My Finngulf came with a Finnish flag, full size, I flew it a few times because of all the cheery waves I got from other yachts, must look it out.

Quite often in Southampton & Poole, foreign ships fly the Union flag as a courtesy flag, particularly East Eurpoean/Russian vessels.

 

[davidaprice]

I wouldn't do it, it seems a bit pretentious. Plus if I had any Scandinavians visiting I wouldn't have any of their flags on board.

I don't do it either, except very occasionally just for fun when we take a new foreign friend for a sail. But it's why I carry an Austrian courtesy flag, despite the risk of mixing it up with my Latvian courtesy flag.

I'm really just curious what the pedantically correct British guest flag is, and whether the Finnish experts got it right. You're anyway out of luck if you have two different foreigners aboard, since you don't want to fly one flag in a senior position to the other.

 

[Resolution]

I wouldn't do it, it seems a bit pretentious. Plus if I had any Scandinavians visiting I wouldn't have any of their flags on board.

Not pretentious at all. We see loads of charter boats in the Med flying "guests on board" flags from the port spreaders, often two or three different ones. This is a great help if for example you are from Sweden and you see a Swedish flag on port side, you have good reason to nip over and meet your fellow countrymen (or women). Very sociable, good custom.
Of course the starboard side should be kept for official ship's business.
And in our club burgees should be flown from the masthead, but that is I admit a bit pretentious.
Peter

 

[johnalison]

It's a new one on me, but it seems to be a rather charming addition to the cruising repertoire.

The union flag/jack is always an abomination on board yachts, so I hope not to see its use creep in by default. I have come across one or two foreign boats that have been wrongly advised before leaving their home shores, so we have to be kind to them as we direct them to the rarest chandlery.

 

[iLens]

We've done a lot of "relay cruising", where a new group of friends take over the boat and move it on for a couple of weeks or so. We always have the national flags of the current crew flying from the port spreaders and have made many new friends that way. Admittedly one of the owners claims 4 nationalities (three passports and he's Welsh) so the windage can be quite considerable. (The boat is French-flagged and we fly the Red Ensign from the starboard spreader when in UK waters)

 

[LadyInBed]

Not pretentious at all. We see loads of charter boats in the Med flying "guests on board" flags from the port spreaders, often two or three different ones. This is a great help if for example you are from Sweden and you see a Swedish flag on port side, you have good reason to nip over and meet your fellow countrymen (or women). Very sociable, good custom.
Of course the starboard side should be kept for official ship's business.
And in our club burgees should be flown from the masthead, but that is I admit a bit pretentious.
Peter

Then maybe I should get a flag made - Entertaining Tonight

 

[Kukri]

Then maybe I should get a flag made - Entertaining Tonight

A Gin Pennant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gin_pennant

 

[JumbleDuck]

(shouldn't call it a union jack unless it's flown at a jackstaff)

A "jack" is simply a small flag. See https://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/british-flags/the-union-jack-or-the-union-flag/

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Originally Posted by davidaprice:
(shouldn't call it a union jack unless it's flown at a jackstaff)

No, Parliament in the early part of the 20th century decreed that the national flag of the UK was the 'Union Jack'.

The Navy had been using either description without preference for years before that. The interesting thing was apart from the military and royalty, there wasn't really a national flag in the UK at all up until that time. That's why we don't see it flown from government buildings or have all the rules surrounding it's use as they do in the USA etc. The symbol of the State's authority in the UK is 'the crown' so that is what you see in law courts, etc, not the flag.

 

[sailorman]

I was discussing flag etiquette today at the Helsinki Boat Show with a flag expert from the Finnish yachting association. They have a new book on yacht flags and flag etiquette, and in it they show an example of a British flag being flown at the port spreader when a Finnish yacht has a British guest aboard.

The British flag shown is a small red ensign. I'd always understood that the red ensign is only used as the yacht's main ensign at the stern, and that as a guest flag or a courtesy flag (when a foreign yacht visits the UK) you should use a small union flag (shouldn't call it a union jack unless it's flown at a jackstaff).

So which is right, small red ensign or small union flag? Opinions welcome, but authoritative references even more so, as I promised to report back to him.

RE is correct, a Union Flag has no place on a Yacht

 

[Quandary]

Quite a few of the yachts that pass our house are on charter, easily recognized by having as many crew as berths, these days there seem to be a lot of Russians, still some Scandanavians, French, Germans, Italians and quite a few English. The boats seem to be equipped with red ensigns which some fly, occasionally with a small national flag from the spreaders, some (probably experienced regular charterers) bring their national flag and substitute it for the red ensign at the stern and some of those fly a saltire or small ensign at the crosstrees. A substantial number do not display any flag at all, particularly the Russians and East Europeans so you have to watch and listen to them to work out where they are from. ( not seen any Chinese yet).

 

[AntarcticPilot]

My wife is from Hong Kong, so we often fly a Hong Kong courtesy ensign from the port crosstrees. Just a bit of fun!

 

[Pump-Out]

Quite often in Southampton & Poole, foreign ships fly the Union flag as a courtesy flag, particularly East Eurpoean/Russian vessels.

Incorrectly then.

The Red Ensign is correct for all visiting ships & yachts in UK waters.
The only exception is visiting warships - they fly the Union Flag.

 

[alant]

RE is correct, a Union Flag has no place on a Yacht

Pilot Jack?