eddystone
Well-Known Member
OK what happened in 1985? (just curious mine was built in November 1986)
Which Boat
- Thread starter Sandgrounder
- Start date
OK what happened in 1985? (just curious mine was built in November 1986)
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Don't take that date literally. That was the period when better resins and better moulding techniques started to come into use. Does not mean all boats built prior to that get osmosis, nor that boats built later are necessarily immune. One of the difficulties with osmosis is that it is unpredictable at the individual boat level because the root cause can be in the specific layup. So you can have identical boats built at roughly the same time and one gets osmosis and the other does not.
However in more recent times the quality of materials and processes have improved such that such defects are now rare.
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
They are good liveaboards and fairly seakindly.
Many of them built have been lost in the odd hurricane.
One of the downsides is the balsa cored deck which is not as substantially built around the fixtures, fittings and through deck items like hatches.
If they have a screwed down teak deck, then they are a nightmare as they get old being subject to water ingress.
S.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
More attractive than many because of the new engine. However, shipping and tax plus getting a CE mark (assuming you can get stability data) would give a landed cost close to £50k!
Hardly a bargain compared with what you can get over here ready to go for that kind of money. (The Tradewind you posted recently comes to mind at little more than half that money).
Boo2
Well-Known Member
10 minutes on Google confirms my point that Nicholson sourced the Nich 38 hull design from a US designer who based it on an adeptation of another of his designs. From which we can conclude I know more about this matter than yourself.
The bulbous mid sections with their tumblehome and two tight turns give the game away to the trained eye. You know what they say about teachers...
Nothing abolute, some parts of the industry woke up to the osmosis problem faster than others. Beneteau started epoxying their +35ft hulls from 1980. Less osmosis prone resins were adopted by the industry over the next 10 years.
Sandgrounder
Well-Known Member
Jonjo,
From the owners association website: -
"The Nicholson 38 was designed by Camper & Nicholsons in 1965 as a ketch motor-sailer. C&N came to an arrangement with John Alden to modify his Mistral design which had previously been moulded by Halmatic, this included increasing the length and freeboard with new hull and deck moulds, arrangement and rig.
The first yacht was exhibited at the 1966 London Boat Show and had been built alongside Gipsy Moth IV. All Nicholson 38’s were moulded by Halmatic and nearly all were completed by C&N at Gosport except for ten sold as Part Assemblies completed by their owners.
No 26 Mauna Kea was the first to complete a circumnavigation in the early 1970’s and the last one No 134 NICOLISA was moulded in 1976 and completed by her owner in 1978.
The Nicholson 38 was designed by Camper & Nicholsons in 1965 as a ketch motor-sailer. C&N came to an arrangement with John Alden to modify his Mistral design which had previously been moulded by Halmatic, this included increasing the length and freeboard with new hull and deck moulds, arrangement and rig.
The first yacht was exhibited at the 1966 London Boat Show and had been built alongside Gipsy Moth IV. All Nicholson 38’s were moulded by Halmatic and nearly all were completed by C&N at Gosport except for ten sold as Part Assemblies completed by their owners.
No 26 Mauna Kea was the first to complete a circumnavigation in the early 1970’s and the last one No 134 NICOLISA was moulded in 1976 and completed by her owner in 1978."
Looks like you are wrong. I would certainly be more inclined to trust the site about the origins of the design than you, however well intentioned your contributions. Increasing freeboard, length, rig and amending the rig. Didn't see anything about it having been a shallow draft east coast rig or the draft having to be increased!
NealB
Well-Known Member
Draft of the Mistral is given as 4.75 feet, of the Nic 38 as 5 feet two inches.
Isn't that evidence that the draft was increased?
Isn't that evidence that the draft was increased?
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Thankyou for helping to confirm my point in part. Would this be the same John Alden born on the eastern seaboard of America in 1884?
Sandgrounder
Well-Known Member
I assume it would be. If NealB is correct, and I have no reason to doubt this, then the draft was increased by 5 inches or 8.77%; hardly a major difference.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The source you quote was sort of correct but only tells part of the story. John Alden was no longer designing boats when that boat was designed. He did little work from the mid 1940s and in 1955 he sold the firm. He died in 1962.
The Mistral design was a development of many similar earlier designs which do date from the Alden era, although Alden himself never had much direct involvement in the actual design work after the 1930s, and many of that style were actually the work of Carl Arlberg. The basic shape and style of the hull can be traced back to designs from the late 30's and 40's like many early GRP boats. Variations would have included at some point a shallow draft centreboard version popular on the east coast USA, although not sure whether any were actually built. That sort of development pattern was very common - and still is probably. Take a successful design and develop it over the years, adding a bit, subtracting a bit, changing the coachroof etc as tastes change. Much easier when boats were individually built of wood but still common in the early GRP days when there was still a lot of hand work.
Anyway the story is essentially true - it is not a C&N design, but the result of a quick way of getting a different style boat into the range to complement the home grown boats. None the worse for that and well regarded at the time, mainly because it had little competition apart from the Giles designs that were similar in concept. However that type of boat was quickly superseded by more modern designs of similar length from Moody and later Westerly which offered far more for the average cruiser. C&N also then built similar size and larger boats with more beam and fin and skeg underbodies as buyers moved away from GRP copies of wooden designs.
Agree with Scotty that they can be good value because like many similar boats they have very limited appeal in today's market and this is reflected in the asking prices.
Sandgrounder
Well-Known Member
I'm on the horns of a dilemma here because: - 1. I like ketch rig notwithstanding its deleterious effect of windward performance; as I get older it will be easier to handle; and 2. I prefer the accommodation of the Rasmus. I also like the Warrior but I suspect it will be even harder to find a good one of them that represents vfm - too many home completions and so on.
I think my decision will have to be driven by condition. I will want a boat with either a rebuilt, or relatively recent engine; a rig that is less than maybe 10 years; and one that isn't too scruffy, I can do some tidying up but I want to sail not to polish. The alternative would be to find one sufficiently cheap that I can end up with a boat which has new rig, sails, engine and Nav-kit all within my initial budget
I think my decision will have to be driven by condition. I will want a boat with either a rebuilt, or relatively recent engine; a rig that is less than maybe 10 years; and one that isn't too scruffy, I can do some tidying up but I want to sail not to polish. The alternative would be to find one sufficiently cheap that I can end up with a boat which has new rig, sails, engine and Nav-kit all within my initial budget
Tranona
Well-Known Member
You are setting yourself a difficult task, choosing a type of boat that was only ever sold in very small numbers then finding one in good enough condition to use for a relatively small amount of money. Such boats do exist, but owners tend to keep them for the same reasons you want to buy one!
Fail to see how a clunky old ketch rig is easier to handle compared with a modern in mast, but of course getting an easy to handle efficient rig means almost inevitably choosing the style of boat you are trying to avoid!
Pity you are the other end of the country as I would love to demonstrate how satisfactory a modern boat can be for your requirements (says he, only half joking).
Fail to see how a clunky old ketch rig is easier to handle compared with a modern in mast, but of course getting an easy to handle efficient rig means almost inevitably choosing the style of boat you are trying to avoid!
Pity you are the other end of the country as I would love to demonstrate how satisfactory a modern boat can be for your requirements (says he, only half joking).
Sandgrounder
Well-Known Member
Careful Tranona. I have been known to travel and might just take you up on that, if it is an offer! I'm tied up for the next couple of weeks but after that I'm, more or less, a free agent
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Boat is in the marina in Poole Yacht Club 10 minutes drive from home. You are welcome any time.
BTW I understand your dilemma and attraction to older boats. I still own a long keel wooden boat from the 1960s and like you always imagined buying a "pedigree" boat for my retirement. However got seduced over 15 years ago by modern boats chartering in the Med and bought my first Bavaria then for use out there. As I have said many times, once you have sampled the benefits you realise that in practical terms how much better they are for relaxed retirement type sailing. Don't have the romantic connotations of a boat like a Nic 38, but those are best appreciated by being owned by somebody else and you can still imagine what it might be like to own one without all the hassle of actually being an owner! If you get my drift.
Sandgrounder
Well-Known Member
I quite understand your perspective
Ludd
Well-Known Member
Consider a hr Erasmus/Nab35. Ticks most of your boxes.I.be s/handed mine round the w/isles and down to Portugal. Not a lot around for sale,but usually well cared for..
Sandgrounder
Well-Known Member
Hi Ludd,
Euan introduced me to the boat and it looks ideal. I'm pretty certain that id I can find a good one it will be what I buy
pvb
Well-Known Member
Seriously? And Ludd doesn't even know the name of the boat; it's Rasmus. As a long-time HR owner, I'm a great fan of many of their boats, but the Rasmus is now almost 50 years old, and will feel old and involve a lot of effort to sail satisfactorily, not to mention endless maintenance. You can do much better.
