When was the last time you sailed in a force 8?

[Buck Turgidson]

10th July this year off Majorca 3 days out from Valencia singlehanded. I was almost temped to use the storm Jib but then remembered she's a twister ;-)

 

[Robin]

I too have learned to be suspicious of yachtsmen's tales of derring-do in gales. I have recorded 58 knots true wind while sailing, but it was only a flurry that came off a Swedish island, and we hardly noticed it. When people I know say they came back across the Channel in a F8, I can assume that it was a 6 with some gusts of 7-8. Others I know claim to have sailed back in a gale from Ostend to Essex with the wind on the nose. In these cases I know that they mean they did it on a close fetch in one tack. It is scarcely possible to sail a 28-footer directly against the wind across the N Sea in anything over F5, and even that would take forever.

There is also a great difference between a fully-crewed boat and a short-handed one. In an average boat of, say, 35' a crew of four can take half-hour watches and probably enjoy themselves. With only two of us, and one unhappy in marginal conditions, it is a very different matter and I for one wear my cowardice with pride.

Whilst agreeing with much of what you say, I have been pleased to own boats that were very capable in bad weather.

My last 3 sailing boats were:-

1) an Elizabethan 30 fin and skeg designed by David Thomas of Sigma fame to win half ton cup in an expected heavy weather area - was beaten by Scampis in the light winds that occurred.
2) a Westerly 33 ketch long fin keel, built like a brick outhouse and extremely capable of managing heavy weather.

3) a Jeanneau Sun Legende 41 designed by Doug Peterson for one ton cup racing and prototype 'Legende' was a member of French Admirals Cup team, Ours was revamped internally for shorthanded (2) instead of a full race crew of 10. We converted to fully 2-line reefing on all 3 reefs everything done from cockpit. This boat revelled in heavy weather but with a tall rig would also sail in a slight draught, thus widening the 'pleasurable grin band width' considerably. The hull layup was Kevlar reinforced as standard build. optimum upwind was 7kts at 28 degs to apparent wind not bettered by much except really modern racers with fancy sails. We had a fully battened tri radial main in Hydranet and tri radial roller headsail also in Hydranet

(Not mine)



So whilst sort of agreeing with the majority concept of sailing only in mid range wind speeds and judicious use of engines and weather forecasts outside of those there is much pleasure to be gained in truly capable boats.

 

[Stemar]

I for one wear my cowardice with pride.

Me too, but there's a world of difference between cowardice and good seamanship, even if the decision's the same. Avoiding nasty weather with a Grandma & Grandad crew isn't cowardice - not even with two young fit adults, for that matter.

It's all too easy for one to be incapacitated and exciting - or nasty, the difference is more a point of view than anything - suddenly becomes critical

 

[rotrax]

I spent 45 years on the razor edge between success and disaster, success measured by finishing with the same blood in you you started out with.

I have no intention of carrying that through to sailing.

 

[Koeketiene]

So whilst sort of agreeing with the majority concept of sailing only in mid range wind speeds and judicious use of engines and weather forecasts outside of those there is much pleasure to be gained in truly capable boats.

?

 

[Stemar]

So whilst sort of agreeing with the majority concept of sailing only in mid range wind speeds and judicious use of engines and weather forecasts outside of those there is much pleasure to be gained in truly capable boats.

Yep, there's a lot of pleasure in knowing your boat can cope with anything Messrs Neptune and Aeolus can throw at you. And making damned sure they never get the opportunity...

 

[Mudisox]

In the early days [late 60s] as a teenager learning experience on a 48 foot yacht in RORC racing we often would heave too, and the skipper would bring forward the 3 course meal! -
I still cook and still heave too. It is the sea state often not the wind speed that is a problem.

 

[geem]

In the early days [late 60s] as a teenager learning experience on a 48 foot yacht in RORC racing we often would heave too, and the skipper would bring forward the 3 course meal! -
I still cook and still heave too. It is the sea state often not the wind speed that is a problem.

Exactly. I have been in F7 in the Bristol channel with far worse sea conditions than I have experienced in a F8 in the deep Atlantic. Wind over tide conditions and the compression effect of the Bristol Channel make for interesting sea conditions that don't need F8 to make it unpleasant.

 

[Stemar]

Exactly. I have been in F7 in the Bristol channel with far worse sea conditions than I have experienced in a F8 in the deep Atlantic. Wind over tide conditions and the compression effect of the Bristol Channel make for interesting sea conditions that don't need F8 to make it unpleasant.

A bit like that bloody Solent chop.

 

[Daydream believer]

. Others I know claim to have sailed back in a gale from Ostend to Essex with the wind on the nose. In these cases I know that they mean they did it on a close fetch in one tack. It is scarcely possible to sail a 28-footer directly against the wind across the N Sea in anything over F5, and even that would take forever.

I have sailed in F9 twice in my sailing career & I fully agree that a 36 kt gust is not a gale. I have sailed in F7 dozens of times & gales a few times.
the first F9 was in the 70s following a Stella rally to Ostend. I did have a single crew, but within 15 minutes of leaving Ostend he took to a bunk & was so ill that I had to carry him ashore at Burnham & up his garden path at his home.
So my trip was basically SH. I left in company with 3 other boats & weather quickly turned sour. It was a rather odd NNW. Normally such winds come through as SW. As we crossed the Wenduine banks a really large wave broke over the boat & I screamed in fear as it totally engulfed the boat in foam.( that was the most frightened I have ever been in a boat) I had to pump vigorously every 15 minutes on the Henderson pump as the cockpit was not self draining. I soon realised that a wave about to break is like hitting a brick wall. A wave that has broken is not so bad as the energy has dissipated.
The other 3 boats were, at the start , in the next waves, but I could not see them in the bottom of the troughs. After a while I could not see them due to the spume being blown from the tops of the waves & I lost sight of them. Only one made it to Burnham via the Longsand Head- Roger Chadney in Stardust- a very experienced sailor. One did make it to Harwich & one, Shimmer, to St Katherines dock, being unable to make headway northwards .They all had 4 people on board.
I was so tired that I hove too just off the Tail of the Falls for 4.5 Hours & actually went to sleep through exhaustion. I stopped there because being shallower I felt there was less chance of being hit by a ship.!!!The boat sat there beautifully. Something my current Hanse would never do.
The trip took 32 hours So you are right about taking forever. I had to come via the old Edinburgh Channel as I had no hope of getting to the Long Sand Head. Fortunately by the time I got near the Tongue LV the wind had dropped to F7 & I think that I worked my way up the Black Deep crossing the Sunk into the Barrow somewhere.
I had no autopilot in those days & no log, only my Sestral grid compass & a pretty useless seafarer echo sounder. I still have & use, the compass to this day.

 

[newtothis]

I was very junior rail meat on a race to Cherbourg back in 2011. I remember there was some debate as we went around Nab Tower as to whether we were going in to a F8SW or F9S.
While the grown-ups squabbled, no one thought to take down the No 1, which duly got stuck in its track as we turned in to the teeth of whatever it was. That took a couple of rather unpleasant hours to get down by which time most were sick, wet and exhausted, so that when we then tried to reef the main we managed to rip it in half. Engine on, limp back home.
I'm not sure what it really was out there, other than pretty unpleasant. Some poor soul on another boat went off the bow and got dragged by his tether with inevitable consequences.
Suffice it to say, I never really took to offshore racing, and now take a good look at forecasts before I stick my head out the window.

 

[geem]

A bit like that bloody Solent chop.

This was no chop. Our 18 tonne boat was being picked up by breaking waves and dropped on her side. We were trying to escape the Bristol Channel and heading for Padstow. A NW F7 on the ebb created nasty conditions.
Things were better off Padstow so we hove to and got a couple of hours sleep whilst we waited for the Camel Estuary to fill up! We had made far better time than expected due to the stronger wind. The forecast when we left was F6 dropping to F4. We only got the update 20nm down the road when we already new it was blowing F7?

 

[st599]

Going round the Needles in the RTIR we were apparently within 50 feet of another yacht - never saw it the waves were so big. Apparently the high side grinder saw the top of their mast a couple of times.

Later in the race, after loads had shredded their spinnakers, we had to frantically get the attention of the helm as the two buoys he was aiming to go between weren't buoys, but the bottom of an upside down catamaran.

Fastest time we ever managed although the wettest 8 hours on a rail I've ever had.

 

[Stemar]

This was no chop. Our 18 tonne boat was being picked up by breaking waves and dropped on her side. We were trying to escape the Bristol Channel and heading for Padstow. A NW F7 on the ebb created nasty conditions.
Things were better off Padstow so we hove to and got a couple of hours sleep whilst we waited for the Camel Estuary to fill up! We had made far better time than expected due to the stronger wind. The forecast when we left was F6 dropping to F4. We only got the update 20nm down the road when we already new it was blowing F7?

OK, you're welcome to that! The big advantage of the Solent is that there's little fetch. Even if it's blowing straight up the western side (not uncommon), the big stuff gets broken up by Hurst Narrows. What the chop in the Solent is good at is stopping me dead and bouncing me around so a cuppa's out of the question. If it's too bad, the engine goes on and I scurry home. I've never seen it really dangerous, but that may be due to my skill (luck?) in deciding when staying the pub is the better option.

 

[mattonthesea]

Exactly. I have been in F7 in the Bristol channel with far worse sea conditions than I have experienced in a F8 in the deep Atlantic. Wind over tide conditions and the compression effect of the Bristol Channel make for interesting sea conditions that don't need F8 to make it unpleasant.

For embarrassing reasons we had to leave our Minehead anchorage two hours before the tide turned favourable up to Avonmouth. In a short term W F8 we sat outside the Butlins there and going nowhere for an hour. Wind against tide, short and steep waves, we surfed more times than I can remember and we were pooped at least twice.

When the tide turned I'm sure I heard someone say: WARP 7 Mister Zulu,