johns
New member
is there a way of teling when you need to re rig your mast
when to re rig
- Thread starter johns
- Start date
RichardDunstan
New member
Performance drop-off is the main indicator.
You usually notice that you are quicker on one tack than on the other.
Try looking up the mast when you are under sail. With your eye at the base of the mast, look for the tip falling to one side.
At this point you will want to tune your rig.
Normal practice is to replace the standing rigging every 10 years or earlier if you given it a pounding.
You usually notice that you are quicker on one tack than on the other.
Try looking up the mast when you are under sail. With your eye at the base of the mast, look for the tip falling to one side.
At this point you will want to tune your rig.
Normal practice is to replace the standing rigging every 10 years or earlier if you given it a pounding.
kingfisher
Well-known member
When the mast is off the boat, go with some cotton wool along each of the stays. If a cable strand is broken or damaged, the cotton will snag.
All the rigging that is of the same age will have to be replaced.
Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com
All the rigging that is of the same age will have to be replaced.
Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com
charles_reed
Active member
If by re-rig, you mean replace standing rigging, you'll find nearly as many answers as self-appointed experts - the one I like is by Lulu, who makes his living by rigging Ocean 60s.
"16,000 sea miles or 20 years, whichever is the less".
If you're going to re-rig try Z-Spars, even in the UK they're about 1/3 price if local riggers.
My 7mm x 11m caps cost 146 euros from Perigny - the local price was 544 euros.
"16,000 sea miles or 20 years, whichever is the less".
If you're going to re-rig try Z-Spars, even in the UK they're about 1/3 price if local riggers.
My 7mm x 11m caps cost 146 euros from Perigny - the local price was 544 euros.
Chris_Stannard
New member
If you are racing, especially offshore, then you should have the rigging checked every season. Electronic surveys, non destructive and without removing the mast, will tell you if you need anything replaced.
If you are cruising it depends on the miles you do and the weather you meet. If for example you get cought out in a Force 9 I would want a rigging check.
The other thought is ask your insurer, they will err on the side of caution and if you take their advice they cannot argue if the mast does go over the side.
Chris Stannard
If you are cruising it depends on the miles you do and the weather you meet. If for example you get cought out in a Force 9 I would want a rigging check.
The other thought is ask your insurer, they will err on the side of caution and if you take their advice they cannot argue if the mast does go over the side.
Chris Stannard
heerenleed
New member
As someone already said here: there are (too) many self-appointed experts. I change mine when the insurance tells me so. That is after 15 years max. But then, our cruising up to now has been rather relaxed and limited due to a lack of time.
There are many ways of testing the standing rigging, but none is perfect. Testing the wire is very nice, but irrelevant. The wire is the last to go. It's the fittings that are suspect, especially the T-terminals which are impossible to test in a never-fail manner.
So talk to your insurers, and if you feel uncomfortable with the age of your standing rigging, then go for it. A mast is lots more expensive!
happy sailing
Peter a/b SV Heerenleed, Steenbergen, Netherlands
There are many ways of testing the standing rigging, but none is perfect. Testing the wire is very nice, but irrelevant. The wire is the last to go. It's the fittings that are suspect, especially the T-terminals which are impossible to test in a never-fail manner.
So talk to your insurers, and if you feel uncomfortable with the age of your standing rigging, then go for it. A mast is lots more expensive!
happy sailing
Peter a/b SV Heerenleed, Steenbergen, Netherlands
oldharry
Well-known member
I think theres a bit of confusion here: a brand new rig incorrectly set up will cause problems from the word go. Going better on one tack than the other is the result of the mast either being set up off vertical, or having a bend induced by the shrouds being set up inequally. It has nothing to do with the age of the rigging.
Retuning is necessary every time the standing rig is disturbed, and for the racing fraternity tweaking it before each race can win make that little difference that earns the cup! Even the tubbiest cruiser will benefit from regular rig checks which anyone can easily learn to do.
Deciding when the rigging wires need replacing is altogether a different kettle of fish and there do not seem to be any hard and fast rules. Factors include the amount and kind of use the boat gets - fairweather weekending rigs will obviously outlast that of a boat that is out in all weathers for weeks at a time. Is the boat on an exposed mooring where the constant motion is stressing the rig? Wind speeds in an exposed mooring will set up more stresses than a sheltered site, with further stress and vibration which contribute to the wear and tear.
Then what is the rig made of? Stainless? galvanised? plough steel (if only!); how many strands of wire in the composite? what terminals are used - Talurit, swaged, rolled, spliced? How carefully was it done? Were they made by a trained rigger, or the work experience lad who was only shown how to use the machine last week!
If the insurance companies are saying ten years, then probably double that is safe - they only have to pay out if the old one fails.
Retuning is necessary every time the standing rig is disturbed, and for the racing fraternity tweaking it before each race can win make that little difference that earns the cup! Even the tubbiest cruiser will benefit from regular rig checks which anyone can easily learn to do.
Deciding when the rigging wires need replacing is altogether a different kettle of fish and there do not seem to be any hard and fast rules. Factors include the amount and kind of use the boat gets - fairweather weekending rigs will obviously outlast that of a boat that is out in all weathers for weeks at a time. Is the boat on an exposed mooring where the constant motion is stressing the rig? Wind speeds in an exposed mooring will set up more stresses than a sheltered site, with further stress and vibration which contribute to the wear and tear.
Then what is the rig made of? Stainless? galvanised? plough steel (if only!); how many strands of wire in the composite? what terminals are used - Talurit, swaged, rolled, spliced? How carefully was it done? Were they made by a trained rigger, or the work experience lad who was only shown how to use the machine last week!
If the insurance companies are saying ten years, then probably double that is safe - they only have to pay out if the old one fails.
G
Guest
Guest
when the motor industry made safety critical components from the steel we supplied, they would usually fatigue test to failure by cycling the component up to a fixed percentage of its max load. Result usually measured in millions of cycles.
Your rigging is a multi component system, you dont know how many cycles it has been through, nor how high up the load curve. You dont know whether it has been made from clean European steel, or something from the backwoods of the old Eastern bloc . No one can tell you what its life to failure is. Instead, you have to talk of the probability of failue against age.
The oft quoted 10 year life is based on insurance co stats which apparently show a sharp increase in failure rates after this age. However, some companies are quite happy for you to continue with your rigging after 10 years provided it gets a careful yearly inspection. Talk to your company and check their attitude.
Personally, I would rather not have a rig failure even if the insurance co paid for it ( insurance doesnt compensate for crushed fingers, cracked skull etc). Therefore, I changed my rigging at 10 years.
Your rigging is a multi component system, you dont know how many cycles it has been through, nor how high up the load curve. You dont know whether it has been made from clean European steel, or something from the backwoods of the old Eastern bloc . No one can tell you what its life to failure is. Instead, you have to talk of the probability of failue against age.
The oft quoted 10 year life is based on insurance co stats which apparently show a sharp increase in failure rates after this age. However, some companies are quite happy for you to continue with your rigging after 10 years provided it gets a careful yearly inspection. Talk to your company and check their attitude.
Personally, I would rather not have a rig failure even if the insurance co paid for it ( insurance doesnt compensate for crushed fingers, cracked skull etc). Therefore, I changed my rigging at 10 years.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
<fairweather weekending rigs will obviously outlast that of a boat that is out in all weathers for weeks at a time. >
Sorry, completely disagree. Rigging deterioration is due to fatigue to a far greater extent than over stressing. Undertightening is the biggest contributor to fatigue. Many "fairweather weekending" sailors slacken their rigs when leaving the boat, under the mistaken impression that they are avoiding rig problems. In fact they are doing just the opposite. Whereas full time sailors are far more likely to have the correct, high, rig tension that will last almost indefinitely.
Sorry, completely disagree. Rigging deterioration is due to fatigue to a far greater extent than over stressing. Undertightening is the biggest contributor to fatigue. Many "fairweather weekending" sailors slacken their rigs when leaving the boat, under the mistaken impression that they are avoiding rig problems. In fact they are doing just the opposite. Whereas full time sailors are far more likely to have the correct, high, rig tension that will last almost indefinitely.
charles_reed
Active member
I would prefer to suspend judgement about the value of inductance testing - it only tells you when you already have a hidden crack or state-change due to work-hardening.
The only two shrouds I've had go have both failed below the T connector, within 10s of miles of the 15K already posited. (On neither occasion was the rig lost).
Nearly all rigs are set up too slack and weekend sailors are probably the worst offenders.
It's interesting but I'm of the opinion that some skippers are kinder to rigs than others - and most riggers seem to agree with that - so look in the mirror before deciding to change standing rigging!!!!
The only two shrouds I've had go have both failed below the T connector, within 10s of miles of the 15K already posited. (On neither occasion was the rig lost).
Nearly all rigs are set up too slack and weekend sailors are probably the worst offenders.
It's interesting but I'm of the opinion that some skippers are kinder to rigs than others - and most riggers seem to agree with that - so look in the mirror before deciding to change standing rigging!!!!
oldharry
Well-known member
Couldnt agree more Vyv, my comment (probably unwisely!) assumed a properly set up rig - and I followed it with a brief indication of just some of the variables that dictate the 'safe' life of any one rig. My point is that there are so many variables - some more of which you kindly added - that no one can say 'this rigging wire will last X years and will then fail'. Insurers however have to do just that - estimate the likely length of life of their clients rigging. Rather than trying to estimate the actual technicalities, they look at the minimum life expectancy of the average rig, then set a point well before that in order to minimise their financiancial risk. I beleive the vast majority of rigs replaced to meet insurers requirements have many years life left in them.
A senior aircraft inspector tells me commercial aircraft are maintained on the same basis. Individual components have apparently to be replaced after a prescribed number of hours use, which is way before their actual serviceability comes in to question.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by oldharry on 14/11/2002 16:39 (server time).</FONT></P>
A senior aircraft inspector tells me commercial aircraft are maintained on the same basis. Individual components have apparently to be replaced after a prescribed number of hours use, which is way before their actual serviceability comes in to question.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by oldharry on 14/11/2002 16:39 (server time).</FONT></P>
ccscott49
Active member
Before the mast breaks!
alanporter
New member
There was a lot of discussion on this subject on 05 November 2002. It was entitled "Standing Rigging", if you would like to look back at it.
Alan Porter
Alan Porter
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Aircraft standards
are very high indeed. I have recently been involved in some troubleshooting work for a company that services engines at Rotterdam airport. For light aircraft it is mandatory for engines to be fully stripped and inspected between 1200 and 1500 hours. It is not uncommon for all major rotating components, i.e. pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, to be scrapped at this surprisingly low lifetime. Engine oil is changed every 50 hours and different oils used in summer and winter. Quite an eye-opener!
On the yacht rigging I fully agree, and I think said the same thing in the previous long thread on this subject. Advice to change rigging from insurance companies is based upon their experience, that obviously includes those who look after their rigging well and those who don't. Lowest common denominator again.
are very high indeed. I have recently been involved in some troubleshooting work for a company that services engines at Rotterdam airport. For light aircraft it is mandatory for engines to be fully stripped and inspected between 1200 and 1500 hours. It is not uncommon for all major rotating components, i.e. pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, to be scrapped at this surprisingly low lifetime. Engine oil is changed every 50 hours and different oils used in summer and winter. Quite an eye-opener!
On the yacht rigging I fully agree, and I think said the same thing in the previous long thread on this subject. Advice to change rigging from insurance companies is based upon their experience, that obviously includes those who look after their rigging well and those who don't. Lowest common denominator again.